Re: MP guide to MA/LA R\'lyeh
 

Of course each player is free to play the way they find the game most enjoyable, and if you enjoy luck/imp pretender combo you should use it.

I wrote the guide with min/maxing kinda approach, to make it as viable as possible if you are looking to win in mp games. In that view I belive picking an imprissoned pretender is a huge blunder, even worse than going with luck in the setup.

Basically there are 3 general reason why you pick an imprissoned pretender, and none applies to R'lyeh in MA or LA. I will list the 3 here:

- Nations that has good/great sacreds: imprisson so you can afford the good blessings - Obviously Rlyeh is not a bless nation.

- Nations that has a large need for great scales: Rlyeh has no need for production, can easily go with extreme temperature scales(won't affect water provinces income) and misfortune (since it is an synergetic choice with order) - So absolutly no need for heavy investment in your scales.

- Nations that has poor magic accesability: Imprissoned pretender with access to lacking magic can boost the end game for your nation - Obviously with 2 100% random picks (WSED), R'lyeh does not have this weakness (follow my guide and you will have access to basically all types of magic you need).

So I cannot understand what your imp pretender adds to your nation (besides points, that are not really needed, as explained above). I do however see what you are giving up:

- Early defense, and to feel safe from a good Oceania player I do really belive this is a good idea.

- Early mass expansion, remember gold is your friend with R'lyeh. I bet you will have atleast 10 provinces less at turn 15 when comparing awake SC pretender/imp pretender.

I do of course appreciate your feedback, and you should play in the manner you find most fun. But honestly SP is not great for evaluating strategies in the long run, since frankly anything beats the computer.

Re: MP guide to MA/LA R\'lyeh
 

luck is more viable if using the Conceptual Balance Scale mod - otherwise, most min/maxers will take something like misfortune -2. Then use the points for an awake SC, or a dormant one that needs research.

Re: MP guide to MA/LA R\'lyeh
 

EvilHomer,

There was a reason I took imprisoned, and I know it had to do with scales/magic, but I'll be darned if I can remember what it was. However, it may have been nature, as I believe I took some points in it to make GoH a reality. Regardless, it may not have been the smartest choice, but I was in LA, so I really didn't have anyone to worry about in the water. Also, once I started using Illithids as my main attack force and freespawns as both chaff and heavy infantry (Othernesses and shapeless things and so forth), things went a LOT better for me than the first game. So, there are likely a lot of factors that led to me liking the modified scales better, not just the luck part, and I should probably play another game using your scales to test it out.

As for SP not being a good test bed, I'm not sure how else you would test. There simply isn't enough time to test in MP, as you pretty much have to know what you are doing or you are quickly dead. So I look at SP as a chance to test various strategies and learn the nation in question. Part of that process is of course pretender design. I'm sure I'll learn more in MP, but you have to get a base somewhere, right?

In the end, I didn't mean to offend you, or say my way was better by any means. I am very grateful for your guide, it helped me a lot, and by no means do I think I have mastered the race or the game. I just wanted to share my experience, and mention that using the modified combination of both strategies presented here gave me the best results in the games I have played so far.

Re: MP guide to MA/LA R\'lyeh
 

Well a blitz is a pretty good way to give a strategy a quick test. Otherwise, cranking they ai way up(impossible, aggressive and a good nation) can give you a challenge.

Re: MP guide to MA/LA R\'lyeh
 

Does Returning spell work for S1 starspawn priests or only S2 ones when using them at the Void Gate? I tried it out with an S1 priest but he refused to cast the spell and wound up getting killed. Then I did some testing and sent another S1 priest out into combat with a bunch of astral pearls, and he seemed to either cast returning or otherwise disappear when a Count summoned some vampires on top of him. However, when attacking other indie provinces alone, the S1 priest only casts Astral Shield or some other spells instead of Returning. So I'm wondering if this is a bug, or if maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Re: MP guide to MA/LA R\'lyeh
 

You need an S2. It's an S2 spell requiring 2 pearls. An S1 can only use 1 pearl (unless he's boosted to S2 somehow other than by using extra pearls).

Don't give the S2 2 pearls, give him 4. He can get attacked and lost in space all in the same turn. When you return from being lost in space, you land in a random province. His script will still be Returning, so he will return home if he has 2 pearls left.

The S1 who disappeared may have blinked and run away, possibly.