*TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Before I go nuts all over this, I just wanted to doublecheck my facts. : )

Is my post's title true?

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

It was actually a team of highly coordinated sentient spiders wearing the stolen skin of two people.

But yes, I suppose.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Well that a surreal post Sombre http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But yes, two people pretty much. I think Kristoffer's brother contributed a bit of content.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

What amazes me even more is that Kristoffer recently posted that summer vacation is over and he has to return to work. I was able to infer that he is teacher of some sorts. So not only did he write the game, he holds a job down also.

They must have longer days in Sweden than they do in PA. Probably has something to do with the midnight sun or the tall, leggy, beautiful blondes. I'm quite a bit short on both so I really cannot figure it out on my own.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

I put it down to long cold winters myself and the fact that all those tall, leggy, beautiful blondes clear off to the Mediterranean when they realise thats where the sun hides out.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

I'm going to believe this theory because I went short, squat and brunette and it would be devestating to add my blonde postulation to my list of Major Errors Committed. I could deal with the midnight sun possibility because I hate the cold; in fact I've dedicated my life to make sure that I will spend eternity in a warm location.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Wow. Just...wow.

Humour aside, this is a very impressive achievement. This game is better than most games developed by teams of twenty, fourty, a hundred programmers.

Without that knowledge, Dom3 is a very good game--the first non-MMOG to keep my attention for more than a month or two, in many years.

Knowing that two people created it in their basement (figuratively speaking) somehow makes it...special.

Amazing work, Johan and Kristoffer.

...Two people. *boggle*

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Actually they both have "real" jobs.
To quote from a press release:
Johan Karlsson is the programmer and does most of the code to make things work. Besides the game, he also programs his own tools that he uses (such as sprite and sound editors), and the installer and get all of it to work on Windows, and Mac, and Linux (well it already works on linux since thats what he programs on)

Kristoffer Osterman is the theme and graphics guy. He teaches, and part of that involves mythological/religio history. So he is able to mix in his already extensive knowledge with creating the nations, pretenders, units, etc. He is also the balance guy. The one with the overall picture for the game.

Johan Osterman is Kristoffer's brother and besides being a #1 alpha tester he also tends to take short answers from J and K, and turn then into longer ones. Both in the game (such as the messages you get when a global is cast) and often here in the forums also.

A day at work at Illwinter game design..
http://www.illwinter.com/illwork.jpg

What our heroes really look like..
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Origins...2/dcp_0309.jpg
Thats Kristoffer on the left side of the image, and Johan in the middle.

Disclaimer: not an official response
Gandalf Parker

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

It is truly remarkable considering the $multimillion budgets and enormous game studios of today. I heard that THOUSANDS of people were on contract for Mario Party 8.

Not to take away from this awesome achievement, but this is the way video games started, and they still continue this tradition! Have you heard of Space Empires? That series half of Illwinter's "staff".

I think it's awesome that we have such a big multiplayer community. It's a wonderful time to play Dominions.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Like I said, the first two are spiders, the third one, the brother, he's a centaur and it's the horse bit that does all the work on the game.

Had to have a special giant wooden keyboard made because he kept smashing the keys with his hooves.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Morkilus - yeah, you're right this is the way computer games started in the good old days! Like, remember Lord British in his heyday making those Ultima games mostly all by himself..

I really think that "too many cooks spoil the broth" is dead accurate. If you have one or two guys with a clear picture of the game they would like to see and the desire to work like crazy to make it a reality, you end up with the best games. I mean, to me anyway, I believe that computer games used to be much better in the 80's and early 90's. There was a time in the early 90s when games like Wing Commander, Doom, Civilization, Star Control, X-Com, Dune II, Ultima Underworld, etc, etc were all coming out basically back-to-back in a serious burst of creativity.

All of those games have since spawned numerous sequals and some even entire genres of games:

Wing Commander - at least 5 games and Privateer
Doom - the FPS genre (although Wolfenstein started it, it was really Doom that made the genre take off)
Civilization - the modern turn-based strategy genre (4X), Dominions I'm sure the devs would admit owes a lot to Master of Magic, a spin off of Civ and MOO. MOO deserves credit, too - especially in terms of AI, it had the best AI I've ever seen in any 4X type game - but, I think that MOO was inspired by Civ mostly.
Star Control - only 3 games, but I really like this one!
X-Com - At least 4 games, I believe, and also Laser Squad Nemesis, and probably it has influenced others. This is a type of game that I've heard lots of people (including me!) want more of and for some reason aren't getting. So, 4-5 games, but it should have been more.
Dune II - the entire RTS genre
Ultima Underworld - certainly inspired the Elder Scrolls series and probably more

Also, you've got Ultima Online of course that inspired the MMO genre, but that was later in the 90s.

It seems to me that in the 70s and 80s you had the one or two guys in their basement making awesome games, then you had the 90s where the game industry "matured", people were working in small groups, and in the early part of that period is where you find like 90% of the creativity of all the mass-marketed games that have been produced ever since. They've just been putting out endless sequals of the games I've listed and of others I've probably forgotten. They do that, imo, because there are too many people working on the project and individual creativity is stifled. Also because the powers that be are reluctant to spend the cash on something that isn't a sure thing. Of course, not every "sure thing" is really a sure thing - MOO3 anyone?? So, I think that strategy is self-defeating.

I think the only good games coming out now are independent ones like Dominions. I could be wrong, but whenever I check out the mass marketed games they always seem to disappoint me.

Edit:

Oh, I forgot Alone in the Dark which I believe inspired the Resident Evil series and the action/horror style genre.

I also forgot Sim City which was the first of the Sim games.

Also Street Fighter which inspired basically all the fighting games, although that was a little earlier in the late 80s.

Taking a look at IGNs list of the top 100 computer games (the one made in 2005), I count 40 of them being from the period between 1989-1995, and that doesn't include Civilization II (1996). Civ I wasn't on the list. I suppose Civ II may have been a better game, but I still think the credit belongs to the trailblazer, not the sequal.

Also, that number would be a lot higher if we included any game defined mainly by a genre created by one of those 40. I think it would include just about all of them in that case.

I apparently have too much time on my hands today.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

There is something 'right' and inspiring about the reality that two guys can achieve such a deep game when the game industry says it can't be done. Especially when critics hail Dominions as the most engaging fantasy strategy game ever made.

My all time favourite game is Age of Wonders, and when the same developers recently brought out Overlord I was all set to buy it. I had been aware of Dominions for some time and had played the Dom2 demo but didn't really get a feel for its intricacies at the time. The price tag had always scared me off (I have a $20 threshold for 'Indy' games). Anyhow, when I couldn't find any reference to a random map generator for Overlord I had one last look and ended up buying Dom3 instead. And I am really glad I did.

The factors that ended up swaying me to buy Dom3 were the critic comparisons to Age of Wonders, the health of this forum, the direct contact this forum enjoys with the developers, and curiosity about what two guys 'working out of a garage' can do.

I'm really impressed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Yes, congratulations, it really is amazing! I think the key here is passion for what they do!

I do develop for a living, and I don't think I could code some more after work in a professional way like they do (I have some other hobbies). Let alone, I like the skills in SDL/graphics libraries in general, IA to make such a great game. I find also the map random generation awesome. In summary, game developement knowledge is I think one of the most demanding field in computer science, especially given the not so uncommon lack of patience of gamers ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The fact that the game is multi-platform is also an achievement. How many application fail in this regard !

The screenshot of the typical day at illwinter reminded me how great the icons are and how there are lots of them! Despite my lack of free time (like everyone else) I would maybe like to make a mod which would be a nation. I'd try to make balanced although it is difficult not to favour your 'children' ;-). I tried in fact to draw some unit in 32x32 and I find it really hard! Especially if you try to par it with the quality of the original nations !

It would maybe nice to have some kind of tutorial/basic guidelines on how to approach this quality ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

I just found out that their office lie 500 meters from where I live in Lund. Someday I should pay them a visit and thank them for all the joy and undone work at the university they have given me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Obviously there will be a few changes since Illwinter was acquired by Electronic Arts.

Firstly, to provide beter value, the coding and art design will be done in Chinese slave labor camps, with J+K providing offsite inspiration and leadership. In combination with their streamlined approach to testing, this will enable the new development team to release dominions 4 in just six months! But don't worry, EA will be *even more true* to the original vision for the dominions franchise.

To get your game going in top gear, the baroque madrigrals will be replaced with a throbbing grunge-hip hop soundtrack from some of today's best known artists (european versions will ship with a blazing electronica-infused dance mix, instead.)

The new developers will concentrate on delivering the most stunning possible visuals to the 12 pretenders and nearly 30 spells that will ship with the original version. Downloadable expansions (only 500 Microsoft Points each!) can increase these numbers without limit!

You'll be able to equip your pretender with a wide array of deadly weaponry, including the pistol, chain gun, and dreaded plasma cannon.

So that you can play against the widest possible range of opponents, the game will be exclusive to the XBox 360.

As an added value to the consumer, most of the spells and weapons will be availble to X-box live premier members, for a monthly fee of only 250 microsoft points.

The game will be a first person shooter, delivering the adrenaline-fueled gusto of the Halo engine to the magical world of dominions.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

That office is JK's apartment.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Our official office is JK's home adress http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If you show up with a can of beer he would be pleasantly surprised http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


And thanks all for the positive feedback!

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Actually JK is more like some sort of undead:
He is unfazed by trauma and codes bat detectors for fun.
He is inhumanly pale and thin and has suprising strength for his frame.
He is known to gorge himself on congealed blood sausages.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

LOL!

But hey, that is quite some address, right next to Grand Hotel and everything. Very central. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I live at Väster myself, so I'm passing you by on Trollebergsvägen on my bike almost every day. And think that I ordered the game from USA when I just could've popped in for a copy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And yes, I always suspected that beer was the key to your secret domain. It is the master key into all magical worlds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

> It is the master key into all magical worlds

You are forgetting coffe! Although JK doesn't like it.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

wow....

I just found this from ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html :

26th july
* 2 Mictlan MA heroes.
* Mictlan MA sky priest.
* New hydra regen change.
<font color="purple"> * Hero dependent events. </font>
* Maenad new sprite.
* Maenad forest survival.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

That's... that's... it promises SO much... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

&gt; * Hero dependent events.

This one will probably go unnoticed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I added a couple of events that can only appear if a given hero is in the province of the event. So it is rather unlikely you will ever see them. On the other hand, when you do you will like it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

It didn't take too long to make them, and it was quite fun, but as I said it will probably not affect most games.

Edit: Oops, posted as my brother.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

I don't think they will be quite that rare. Everyone won't see them in every game, but with this many people playing, I'd say it won't take more than a week after the patch when we'll have one of these reported. . Anyone playing the game for a long time will have seen all the events that his scales allow for. People only discover "new" events once they change the scales they are used to.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

That sounds neat. You might open a floodgate of suggestions for like events.

You could probably create some generic ones also. Such as, the one that has "volunteers" pop up. I actually wouldnt mind that one much if it happened where my hero was who can usually add them to his army with no problem. And it would be thematic "When people heard of the mighty hero visiting them then many rushed to join his army." Actually just a slight increase in lucky events at the province of heroes would cool.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

&gt; You could probably create some generic ones also.

Generics can't be made this way, since the restriction is on a specific monster number. Thus there has to be one such event for the hero Cu CHulainn, and another for the hero Tjatse.

&gt; Actually just a slight increase in lucky events at the province of heroes would cool.

These events will not increase the number of lucky events. They appear as any other event, after a lucky event has been determined.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Could you just give out a little spoiler. Do any of the hero lucky events depend on a misfortune scale?

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Cause if they don't, you and me will either be changing our normal scales for a while or not seeing any.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

So, keeping the two Sauromatian heroes, Sköge and Kirke, in different provinces just in case they won't act as their flavour test suggests and kill each other might pay off after all... ...after the next patch?

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

@atul: Actually, that would work! Nice idea! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Atm only a Delgnat event (wife of skögu).

@LP: not that I can remember. And the juggernaut event only needs a juggernaut and a militia to crush http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: Now Skögu can eat Kirke! Keep them apart http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

I hope hero events are at least max probability, so they get checked for often?

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Some of them. Not the skögu eat kirke one atm. But I suppose I could make it common, so that no one keeps them together.

Skögu got himself some more events. I think I'm biased towards him http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Also made some events activated by Ceremonial masters and Ministers of rituals interpreting the calendars properly. More likely to appear.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Even in huge teams there's usually only one or two people in charge of the game design. Everyone else is employed in making all those detailed textures and spangly effects, or just code crunching.
The problem isn't overengineering, but mass marketing. The bigger developers aren't interested in making a game like Dominions which will sell to a select small audience, they'd rather sell to the mass market, which means appealing to the lowest common denominator, which means compromise and dilution of otherwise solid ideas in the hopes of drawing in a larger audience.
Not really, the situation was just as bad before the mid 80's crash. You had the giants like Taito and their peers in the 70's seeing huge success in the Arcade and then new home - computer market. Funnily enough, people got tired of bland, generic games with mass market appeal, stopped buying them and the whole house of cards came tumbling down. Then you got bedroom coders who gained success, formed companies, started looking for mass appeal ....

Just hope Illwinter survives the crash of 2010 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Inspired Resi Evil, but wasn't the first action/survival horror game by a long shot.
Street Fighter 1 was around 86 IIRC, and shamelessly ripped off a number of fighting games which had went before (Yie Ar Kung Fu being a notable example).
Taking a look at IGNs list of the top 100 computer games (the one made in 2005), I count 40 of them being from the period between 1989-1995, and that doesn't include Civilization II (1996). Civ I wasn't on the list. I suppose Civ II may have been a better game, but I still think the credit belongs to the trailblazer, not the sequal.

Also, that number would be a lot higher if we included any game defined mainly by a genre created by one of those 40. I think it would include just about all of them in that case.

I apparently have too much time on my hands today.

[/quote]

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

I'm not going to predicate that such a thing will happen, but there is some truth to that. This mostly applies to consoles, which hardware advancement has been slowing down over time (PS2's still sell better than PS3's. The PS3 is a fantastic piece of hardware, but relative to previous generations?...). Eventually, you can only make so-much improvement to 3D-prettiness. Plenty of genre's and themes are getting worn out: WWII has been beaten to death; Too many First-Person Shooters seem like every other FPS; etc. Couple those with the skyrocketing development costs for mass-market games, and one would suspect that something 'has to give' sooner or later.

Actually thats another reason the Nintendo Wii is so cool; by exploring such new-areas of gameplay, it could theoritically prevent such a "video game recession" cycle from happening. This doesn't really apply to computer gaming, which mass-market has been slowing going downhill compared to consoles(Though WoW sure has given it a shot in the arm).

Note: My mentions of PS2, PS3, and Wii are merely observations and not meant to spark any potential fanboy arguement.

*cough*Wii

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Console wise I think the problem is the cost of the basic unit. As the prices for the console themselves rise, people's expectations go up, yet the games remain the same (once you get over the shiny graphics effect).

I don't think we'll ever see a crash to the same extent on the PC again though. Most people don't own a PC for gaming, they own it for the internet, work or similar. Gaming (for the majority anyway) is simply an added bonus.

Re: *TWO PEOPLE* created (most of) this game?!?
 

Whatever other problems they may have, Nintendo's been rather smart about pricing. They didn't release the GBA, for instance, until they could get it out with an original retail price of $80.

I hear that on the wii manufacturing costs, they have a profit margin of around $40. That number's by autopsy, though, and doesn't consider overhead, just parts.

Edit:
As Archonsod said, I don't expect will see a big computer crash. At least in the gaming market. For instance, with ATI joining up with AMD, they're coming up with a new standard of integrated graphics - and even the intel its not quite the joke it used to be, not to mention what's been available on mobos (but often overlooked by manufacturers such as Dell).

That said, retail's on its way to a grisly demise. A CompUsa employee told me that they reshelve the PC games maybe once a month, or get in new stock they put up. I'm not sure how serious and how joking they are, but it actually feels plausible from my browsing experiences. And GameStops gobbling up stores and has managed to shrink its one shelf of PC games down even further. I'm not sure they're even trying to capture that part of the market. Those are also the only two concrete ('brick and mortar', but we're in florida, where everythings built from concrete) stores in my area. For crying out loud, Target competes with EBGames.