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redcoat2 September 18th, 2017 06:13 PM

India’s Nag ATGM has completed its development trials paving the way for its induction into the Indian armed forces.



DRG September 18th, 2017 07:07 PM

Re: Nag ATGM
I've got some good Basic info on the missle and the NAMICA launcher that I can turn into a best guesss weapons system, but if anyone has more complete info that would be helpful.... it't top attack but I have been unable to find any penetration info


FASTBOAT TOUGH September 19th, 2017 12:04 AM

Re: Nag ATGM
Alright giving it my best shot-System first st appeared in 2008 per ref.2 picture in it's current form. Source was a Colonel in the Indian Army/also military editor for India's Business Standard/ I've used his defense website for years now BROADSWORD concerning India's defense activities.
Development started in the 80's. The claim it's better than the JAVELIN and SPIKE LR but factoring in Israeli help with the LAHAT for the ARJUN and current testing with Ukraine with the KOMBAT for the same, it probably is not quite on par with the first two. Heading there next or before I'm done. The first couple of refs. establish a baseline, ref. 4 a timeline, ref.5 sets a min. range of 500m, ref. 6 PEN #'s (I know there's some bias here however, I've found his data very through over the years I've looked at his site.) it's a tool if the numbers come close to ours., ref.7 Good picture of launcher firing the NAG.

From weapons sites with not much help...

I know they want their own so why do this?

Lastly a good analysis of the ATGW.

Unless again as pointed out above for ref. 6 PEN conversion, we just don't know right now partially because they're not quite done testing it. Therefore the only logical conclusion is the armor values are still classified. But that all being said, the press is pushing hard from military and DARDO on it's capabilities, also you can't ignore the international support as pointed out above for their tank launched ATGW's and finally I think tying in with the last is NAG's rapid development in the last 10 or so years which has included Israel being on the ground plus having to factor India not only buying the SPIKE LR but having made the deal to include it's production to be made in India.

So I feel the NAG as being a very capable ATGW that just falls short of the performance of both the SPIKE LR and JAVELIN BOTH of which have recently had their platforms modified to deal with the perceived heavier and better protected armor threat to the East.

By your "calculus" I would really be curious to see how or what ref. 6's armor PEN that converts to in our world. And then how it compares to our SPIKE LR and JAVELIN. It might not be a futile exercise but, it is beyond what I do here.

I know not want you wanted to hear.


P.S. :clap:
A great and forgotten man it was announced yesterday died this past March, Lt.Col. Stanislav Petrov. Having slept next to them, it's good to know there are men like him who have the courage and common sense to "take a deep breath" and make the right decision.

Imp September 19th, 2017 06:32 AM

Re: Nag ATGM
When India places military orders it seems to do so in far larger volumes than most nations

DRG September 19th, 2017 07:39 AM

Re: Nag ATGM

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 839636)
as pointed out above for ref. 6 PEN conversion

I do not use any data from that website.

The numbers we have for the weapon already in the game will be looked at now I know there are two versions NAG and HELINA. The numbers we have there now are for the NAG but are attached to Helo's so I need to build a HELINA version for them

As more data comes in we'll adjust as required including service dates which were a bit premature.... I'd forgotten these missiles AND the Namica...and the Icon for the Namica.... were already in the game for 7 years !! :doh:

off topic but I KNOW I rebuilt the turrets for the M1134 last year.... I am certain of it.....but they aren't in the game and I cannot find them in my files......very frustrating... I distinctly recall working on it from a good top down drawing

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 19th, 2017 11:35 AM

Re: Nag ATGM
2 Attachment(s)
Based on the data supplied on REFLEKS IVAR M/M1 Max. Rng. is at 5000m/5km. Ukraine tested their KOMBAT against it and the result was the same range with a higher degree of accuracy. Most ATGM's fall between 4km - 8km., REFLEKS first mod Max. effective range is at 4km with a much lower hit probably at that extended range. Point being they're not alone and this could be a "huge can of worms". SPIKE LR II and latest TOW come to mind as well.

ON the M1134 STRYKER you seem to in a manner indicate you can't find your source data as well. If so then...
Attachment 14916 Attachment 14917

Model makers are an excellent source for this kind of thing. So detailed orientated.


DRG September 19th, 2017 12:45 PM

Re: Nag ATGM
No...... I have all the Stryker M1134 info.... I just cannot find the Icon of the turret I spent an couple hours getting right last year

FOUND IT The reason I thought it was last year is because I built it right after the last release....the Icons were sitting in THIS years Icons folder.....along with a slat version of the M1134

redcoat2 September 19th, 2017 06:52 PM

Re: Nag ATGM
There is a Nag jeep unit (468) in the Indian OOB (obat18) as well as the Namica launch vehicle (103). Is there any evidence that Nag will be mounted on a jeep?

DRG September 19th, 2017 07:01 PM

Re: Nag ATGM

Originally Posted by redcoat2 (Post 839647)
There is a Nag jeep unit (468) in the Indian OOB (obat18) as well as the Namica launch vehicle (103). Is there any evidence that Nag will be mounted on a jeep?

IDK but it WAS 7 years ago that was put in.

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 24th, 2017 06:06 AM

Re: Nag ATGM
This from BROADSWORD as dated (Covers tests from 2006 to date of the article)...
"Saturday, 8 March 2008
Nag missile test: 2006

This test was conducted at the Pokhran Field Firing Ranges in Rajasthan. The tank target was placed at a range of 2500 metres. The Nag has, in other tests, successfully engaged targets at 4 kilometers and above.

For those who need reminding, the Nag is a Generation 3+ (the DRDO says Generation 4) fire-and-forget missile, which is being developed by the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), Hyderabad. It is one of the five missiles being developed by India's Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) as a part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP). When the Nag is accepted into service by the army, the IGMDP will be formally closed.

The missile automatically conducts a top attack at ranges below 1300 metres. It has a tandem warhead that will defeat any Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) in service today. The warhead has been developed by ARDE, Pune and HEMRL, Pune.

The Nag performed well during the summer trials in June 2007, which were conducted through the BMP-based NAMICA (Nag Missile Carrier). That is the vehicle in the video. Some glitches remained to be sorted out after the June 2007 trials. The army has asked for a higher level of ruggedisation (after one missile failed) and has also asked DRDL to improve user-friendliness: the display on the screens, fire controls and reduced reaction and aiming times.

The DRDL says it is confident that the summer trials in 2008 will validate all the technologies in the Nag. So far, one of the problem areas was in the missile's Imaging Infra-red Seeker, which homes it onto the target. That problem has been bypassed by importing the Focal Plane Sensor in the seeker from SOFRADIR in France.

Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) will be the prime contractor for construction of the missile. The production strategy involved getting even the development missiles manufactured by BDL.

The army has also asked for a helicopter borne version of the Nag, the HELINA (Helicopter Launched Nag) with a range of 7.5 km. That is slated to be fitted in the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH), which is being developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Bangalore."

I've had to resort to Indian military blogs mostly (Sorry) but here's my conclusions...

1. I could only find one reference to NAG being "Jeep" mounted and it referred to early tests of the system using a three tubed launcher.

2. It appears it was never adopted for a "jeep" due to the weight of the system and inability to support more advanced sighting systems intended for the NAG as it developed.

3. A key factor it seems for the Indian Army in using the RAKSHAK (JEEP variant.) and JONDA (Land Rover variant.) is they seem not only to use them as launcher but to also give them a man-portable option similar to a weapons carrier.

4. The above use either a FLAME G launcher or the more advanced FLAME V launcher mounted on the above (3.) mentioned platforms. The primary difference between the launchers is simply that the FLAME V can fire the two highlighted missiles from 5. below.

5. The missiles those platforms are most associated with are MILAN/MILAN 2T and KONKUR-M ATGW. A note about the MILAN 2T is that it's not a true tandem warhead with back to back charges for the penetraters. It has smaller charge mounted at the back of the penetrater to give it that extra "push" against ERA/armor. Still apparently effective "This missile penetrates 880 mm of rolled homogenous armor behind ERA." from below ref. India license makes this version now.

6. Delete the NAG "Jeep". And I believe the NAMICA will need to be deferred to a later date around 2018/2019 time-frame because there's a reason this is a 3rd GEN missile and this shouldn't shock anyone after I disclosed in submitting the ARJUN that it took 30yrs to develop, and this missile also had many issues in development.

By way of example, in testing under night and cool conditions depending on what part of the country it's been tested in (They are pretty good overall in doing this with new equipment due to the extremes in climate based on geography of the country.) the missile could hit the target out to 4,000m no problem. However didn't do so good in hotter climates, the IR sensor was so sensitive it would "attack" a hotter background source like sand reflected from the Sun, instead of the target. Daytime ops were limited to I believe it was 1300/or 1500m effective range.

7. I can't find any creditable evidence to support the fact that the NAG has served in any active role in the Indian Army until it's fielded as noted in 6. above. The refs. below supports this conclusion as well.


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