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-   -   Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=24970)

loktarr July 18th, 2005 07:36 PM

Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT)
 
I have made some experiment in order to determineate which MBT was the best of the world in SPMBT: it was quite a fair experiment (and a surprising one):
range of engagement: 2500m
each camp was composed of a single company/escadron of 12 or 13 tanks, deployed in a line, the map was a only clear ground map, country trainig of and exp modified for each tank to got every body E/M at 70/70, I tried every "fight" 4 times, the results are:
- Challenger 2 did kill Abraham <font color="red"> easily </font> (2 for 1)
- Leclerc did kill Leopard 2A6 <font color="red"> Really easily </font> (3 for 1)
- Merkava did kill T-90 without any loses but hardly
When I tried Challenger vs Leclerc, Leclerc did win,
but was killed without loses by the Merkava...
Conclusions:
- Without any better caracteristics, Leclerc did kill Leo and Challenger...
I didn't understand how since I descovered his size is of 4, and I believe it makes him hit less and gives him superiority at great ranges...
- General armor of the Merkava is not so high (T:80, Hull:74(?))and is gun is not very good (120L44-&gt; pen : 90), but in fact I realised that every kill was made from a hull hit in those modern MBTs , so at great distances, merkava is really hard (and quite impossible) to destroy... I'not sure his hull armor is so high but didn't find any numbers on that contrary to Abraham and Leopard A6... It would made him a really heavy tank...
Seems also random is quite good but can do some funny things, I could show it with my precise results if you want...

danstudentvcc July 18th, 2005 11:50 PM

Re: Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT
 
There is no doubt.
The trained crews and tanks of the Israeli forces are among the best.
Their need for such is quite great as well.
No doubt they are among the best motivated as well.

Naturally this would extend to their Air Force; National Security Forces; Intelligence gathering; and across the board, their soldiers as well.

Gus
danstudentvcc

loktarr July 19th, 2005 04:44 AM

Re: Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT
 
Yes, no doubt, war is the best training...

loktarr July 19th, 2005 07:37 AM

Re: Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT
 
Small precision, it was M1A2 SEP tanks...

SCAJolly July 19th, 2005 09:54 AM

Re: Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT
 
Do remember, all training was set to the same level. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif The equipment was tested here, not the soldiers.

loktarr July 19th, 2005 10:16 AM

Re: Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT
 
That's perfectly right...

kevin July 19th, 2005 10:44 AM

Re: Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT
 
As an American I pledge to make it my solemn duty to disprove this slander that says anything other than the Abrams is the best tank ever created http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif I'm sorry, but as a former US Marine I just cannot believe that it is US Army http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif training that is the difference.



Serriously though, looks like a good test. I have a few Questions.
1. How many times did you run through each "round"?
2. Did you keep track of the number of hits / misses?

loktarr July 19th, 2005 11:56 AM

Re: Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT
 
Kevin as a non american I think I can explain this without problems:
Desert Storm 1990: 2900 Abrams, over 3500 allied tanks, 2005 I think US Army + Marines have around 4000 M1 in comparison, Uk army has (if I'm not wrong around 400 Challengers and the for french army with the Leclerc).
everything is clear... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Add to that the US Navy with at least 99,9% carriers of the world (french Navy is the only one to got a nuclear carrier and it has 1 (real carrier I mean not the smalls ones UK has for his ADVs))
Add to that the USAF and I think for each poor MBT of the world there are so many US MBTs and aircrafts that during a war I will disapear witout firing.
And don't forget it's the game...

More seriously:
First "turn" : M1A2 vs Challenger2:
4 rounds, kill report (M1A2/Challenger): (13/4),(13/5),(13/8),(13/8) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
My explanation: hull armor of the Chall 2, as for the Merkava
Leclerc vs Leopard2A6-EX:
4 rounds, kill report (Lec/Leo): (11/13),(4/13),(2/13),(4/13)
Quite unpredictable, maybe because of the size of the Leclerc
Merkava vs T-90:
very ennoying, they were unable to kill each other at that range... But I'm sure Merkava would win
Leclerc vs Merkava: only one round, 13/0
Challenger vs Merkava: only one round 13/0

I precise that fight started with a first move from one side which I swaped each time...

PlasmaKrab July 19th, 2005 04:19 PM

Re: Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT
 
Now Kevin, you can stay patriotic as much as you want without blindfolding yourself!

The Abrams may be a very, very good tank, it is not perfect forasmuch. Not because it was the only tank from its generation that had the opportunity to make good kills, in very favorable consitions may I say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif, not for that reason is it the only worthy military material in the world!

Don't start playing lousy American, there can be many lousy Europeans here too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image.../firedevil.gif and we have no need for this here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

kevin July 19th, 2005 05:05 PM

Re: Best MBT of the world 2005 (According to SPMBT
 
You two don't understand sarcasm and humor very well do you? To all those concerned I was joking.


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