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-   -   Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=24640)

Pyros July 5th, 2005 04:10 PM

Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution
Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution

Please try to suggest the core force for these ToOs:

1. Steming the NVA: The Ia Drang valley Campaign Sep-Dec. 1965 (ToO#1)

2. The Coastal Campaign: The 1st Cav in Binh Dinh province Jan-Mar. 1966 (ToO#2)

3. Battle on Two Fronts: Screening the Cambodian border and rooting the NVA out of Binh Dinh Mar-Oct. 1966 (ToO#3)

4. Pacification: Taming Binh Dinh once and for all Oct 66-Jan 68 (ToO#4)

5. Cavalry to the Rescue! Northern I Corps Tet Offensive Campaign Jan-Oct 68 (ToO#5)

6. The Cav Moves South: Screening Saigon Oct 68-May 1970 (ToO#6)

7. Into the Unknown: Cambodia Incursions May-June 1970 (ToO#7)

8. Stand Down and Redeployement: The Final Years July 70-June 72 (ToO#8) (?)

i) Just post your input and try to relate the core force based on the stock oob with the above numbers of ToOs.
ii) For ToO No1 input the starting core force and for the each/next ToOs just input the additional forces attachments.
iii) It is best to first put the starting core force and then input the ending/full core force; this way you may decide better what should be the step for the additional core forces for each ToO.
iv) It would be great if you could add also the type/name/cost of each element of the proposed core force, as well the total number of core force points after the addition/step of ToO core force increase.

Structure of the U.S. Army
Officially, a member of the U.S. Army is called a Soldier (always capitalized). The U.S. Army is divided into the following components, from largest to smallest:

Field Army:
Usually commanded by a General (GEN; note that abbreviations of military rank are given in all capital letters without a period or other punctuation).

Consists of two or more divisions and organic support brigades. The commander is most often a Lieutenant General (LTG).

Usually commanded by a Major General (MG).

Brigade (or group):
Composed of typically three or more battalions, and commanded by a Colonel (COL) or Brigadier General. (See Regiment for combat arms units.)

Battalion (or squadron):
Most units are organized into battalions. Cavalry units are formed into squadrons. A battalion-sized unit is commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel (LTC), supported by a Command Sergeant Major/E-9 (CSM). This unit consists of a Battalion Commander (CO, LTC), a Battalion Executive Officer (XO,MAJ), a Command Sergeant Major (CSM) and headquarters, 3-5 Company Commanders (CPT), 3-5 Company Executive Officers (1LT), 3-5 First Sergeants (1SG) and headquarters, 6 or more Platoon Leaders (2LT/1LT), 6 or more Platoon sergeants (SFC),and 12 or more Squad Leaders (any NCO).

Company (or battery/troop):
Artillery units are formed into batteries. Cavalry units are formed into troops. A company-sized unit is usually led by a Company Commander usually the rank of Captain/O-3 (CPT) supported by a First Sergeant/E-8 (1SG). This unit consists of a Company Commander (CO, CPT), a Company Executive Officer (XO,1LT), A First Sergeant(1SG) and a headquarters, Two or more Platoon Leaders (2LT/1LT), two or more Platoon Sergeants (SFC), and four or more Squad Leaders (any NCO).

Usually led by a lieutenant supported by a Sergeant First Class/E-7 (SFC). This unit consists of a Platoon Leader (2LT/1LT), a Platoon Sergeant (SFC), and two or more Squad Leaders (any NCO).

Usually directed by Staff Sergeants/E-6 (SSG) who supply guidance for junior NCO Squad leaders. Often used in conjunction with platoons at the company level.

Squad leaders are often Staff Sergeants/E-6 (SSG), Sergeants/E-5 (SGT), or Corporals/E-4 (CPL). This unit consists of eight to ten Soldiers.

Fire team:
Usually consists of four Soldiers: a fire team leader, a grenadier, and two riflemen. Fire team leaders are often Corporal/E-4 (CPL).

Pyros July 14th, 2005 09:13 AM

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution

Beside the addition of core units at fixed intervals of the campaign (army evolution), there is one idea that keeps coming in my mind.
I have already mentioned this yesterday in another thread but it is better to add it here in order to discuss it.

As you know probably in the start of each ToO the game will give some additional predefined troops to the player.
The quality and quantity will be decided in the next phase.
What is interesting to discuss is the option to include a small inter-active trick:

In the final mission of each (some?) ToOs the player will deploy his force on a special small map with three VP flags on it!!! and a mission duration of 1 turn.

But... What these flags represent and why this scenario has a duration of 1?

Next to each VP flag/location the player will read a name of unit/formation (for example mortar platoon or engineers or off-map medium arty).
By moving one of his troops to the appropriate flag/VP location the player will earn some points that will give him (since the battle duration is set to 1 turn) in the next turn a precise score that will lead to type of victory conditions (loss - draw - decisive victory).

Here are 2 tricks:
1. The player according to the victory level he will be redirected to a link (starting point of the next ToO) that will give him as additional core force the selected unit. Then the loop will be closed and the link of the campaign will follow the normal path.
2. Since the victory conditions of the mission will influence the final score, then the unit next to decisive loss will be somehow more important (helos?) than the unit next to the path Decisive victory (light off map arty?)
This way the player will have to make a choice between campaign points and the quality of the selected unit.

The above mechanism should happen in only 3 ToOs (occasions) and should add a different blend to the campaign (more personal). In all the rest ToOs we will provide to the player predefined Core force reinforcements.


p.s when I will return back from isolation/meditation trip I will add a schematic for the above.

narwan July 14th, 2005 09:37 AM

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution
if all flags are within reach of the player (have to be in order for the player have a choice at all) what will keep him from moving a unit (of which he'll have plenty) to each of the flags?

This could work though but as far as I can tell, only if the player has exactly one unit (no more, no less) that could reach these flags. So if he has received helo's as part of his core force at any previous point in the campaign, this 'trick' won't work. That would mean keeping helo's AUX all the time.

Pyros July 14th, 2005 10:01 AM

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution

The flag/system will be explained as a mechanism of the campaign.
The player should be instructed to simply move only one unit to only one VP/flag location.
If he wishes to move all his units to all three flags then he will get a decisive victory and he will receive as core force reinforcement the unit of the third flag (logic?).

Some info about the mechanism:
At the start of the battle all the flags will be under the NVA colors, this mean that the player will begin the battle with a decisive Loss at hand. So it is up to him to step on the appropriate flag and receive the points to score the need result in order to obtain the selected unit.

It is the same system with the secondary missions but here it lead to selected units! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


p.s I will post a map 30x30 to show you what I mean.

Listy July 19th, 2005 09:28 AM

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
modified Units:
The UH-1 ARA "Hog"

A huey with a total of 48 2.75 FFAR's used quite extensively in the 1st cavs battles around LZ X-ray, normally taking over from the Tube arty to cover the final approach of the Slicks. Then to provide close air support to the Infantry once on the ground.

Normal Mode of operation was to dump half the rockets carried in one go at an area around the LZ to keep the NVA's heads down while the Slicks unload. Then to use the rest in support of the infantry.

IT was named the Hog because due to the massive weight of the rocket packs it was very sluggish.

To model this accurately I would have preferred to create a separate unit, and weapons in the OOB, but we're not allowed to.

So, to use in a senario:
Get a UH1 Gunship, change all 4 weapon slots to weapon #148 (4x FFAR), and give each weapon 3 rounds of HE ammo. However that doesn't work as good as it could, as It only really suppresses the unit it's aimed at.

On a side note If you need something more fancy for you helicopter gunships:
In fact that page seems to cover most Helicopters in the period, even if not in detail.

Boonierat July 19th, 2005 11:28 AM

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
I think the best for a Cav campaign is to build the core force progressively around the 1st Sqn, 9th cavalry, which was the reconnaissace unit of the 1st Cav, a 100% airmobile unit and a concept experimented for the first time in Vietnam. The Squadron had 3 Air Troops, each with a "White" aero-scout platoon (light obs helos like the loach), a "Red" aero-weapons platoon (with hueys and cobras gunships) and a "Blue" aero-rifle platoon with an infantry platoon and transport helos. It had also an Ad Hoc ground troops (Troop D) outfitted with gunjeeps and upgunned 3/4 ton trucks.

Listy July 19th, 2005 12:48 PM

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
Well the recce unit could have a single troop as the advanced party for clearing the an khe area of enemy, with the help of the 101.

Boonierat July 19th, 2005 01:21 PM

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
Here's the TO&E of an Air Cavalry Troop, Vietnam-style (as per Stanton's Vietnam Order of Battle )

-Officers: 14
-Warrant Officers: 33
-Soldiers 147

-.50-cal Machineguns: 7
-7.62mm M-60 Machineguns: 4
-5.56 M16 Rifles: 101
-.45-cal Pistols: 15
-.38-cal Revolvers: 78

-AH-1G Cobras: 9
-OH-6A Loaches: 9
-UH-1B Hogs: 2
-UH-1D Slicks: 6

-2 1/2-ton trucks: 8
-3/4-ton trucks: 6
-1/4-ton utility Vehicles: 3

Listy July 19th, 2005 02:55 PM

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
That's a troop? I'd hate to see what a squadron comprises of..

Of course we've almost certainly running into that age old problem of what I call a troop, isn't what you call a troop...

Pyros July 19th, 2005 04:28 PM

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
I think we should exclude the AIR assets (as Core force; only available as AUX reinforcements) until the 2 or 3 ToO.
Now the big question is what we have available to use from the US OOB?

What are our possibilities?

Here is just a first quick proposal (to serve as a base for further discussions)

1 ToO: Ad Hoc ground troops (Troop D) outfitted with gunjeeps and upgunned 3/4 ton trucks
2 ToO: Off-map Divisional Artillery
3 ToO: Divisional Engineers
4, 5, 6 ToOs, any combination of White, Red, Blue
7 ToO: an additional Air Troop
8 ToO: an additional Air Troop (this way the core force will have the strength of a reinforced Air squadrom
9 ToO: Free use of Core force points for alternate history ToO.

What do you think?


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