Too Much Ammo
 

How is it realistic to give troops small arms ammunition ratings of 90? To my mind (I'm no expert), the infantry might be more realistically modelled as having ammo ratings of say, 30.

Re: Too Much Ammo
 

You may want to have a look at Cross's mod. It's out of date now, but you can use his guidelines to edit your OOBs.

Link: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46493

Re: Too Much Ammo
 

Agreed. Infantries seem to have infinite ammo when playing a short battle. Their gunfire is almost endless. Some opponents use Z without any scruple.

This Reminds Me of an Earlier Thread
 

and a discussion on the old Yahoo List where the armoured okes were amazed at the ammo loads we footies carried. Yes we were truly Malan's Mules.

I carried an average of 240 rounds for my R-1 on patrol. I never carried less than two hundred, and often carried three hundred. I remember that I never carried the same exact load twice.

troopie

R-1 rounds are rifle rounds only. That doesn't include the bunker bombs, grenades, FN-MAG belts or pistol and pistol rounds carried.

Re: Too Much Ammo
 

<TABLE class=wikitable> <TBODY> <TR> <TH style="BACKGROUND: rgb(239,239,239)">Rifle</TH> <TH style="BACKGROUND: rgb(239,239,239)">Cartridge</TH> <TH style="BACKGROUND: rgb(239,239,239)">Cartridge weight</TH> <TH style="BACKGROUND: rgb(239,239,239)">Weight of loaded magazine</TH> <TH style="BACKGROUND: rgb(239,239,239)">10 kg (22#) ammo load</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>M14</TD> <TD>7.62×51mm</TD> <TD>393 grains (25.5 g)</TD> <TD>20 rds @ 0.68 kg</TD> <TD>14 mags / 280 rds</TD></TR> <TR> <TD>M16</TD> <TD>5.56×45mm</TD> <TD>183 grains (11.9 g)</TD> <TD>20 rds @ 0.3 kg</TD> <TD>33 mags / 660 rds</TD></TR> <TR> <TD>AK-47</TD> <TD>7.62×39mm</TD> <TD>281 grains (18.2 g)</TD> <TD>30 rds @ 1.2 kg*<SUP id=cite_ref-8 class=reference>[8]</SUP></TD> <TD>8 mags / 240 rds</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Re: Too Much Ammo
 

But if you finally get a day off from work and you are engaging in some recreational time and finally have a chance to play Steel Panthers and for some reason you are actually using good tactics and having a good battle it can be a real Mind Melt down to then notice your troops running out of ammo.

We carry 140 rounds .223 where I work and 46 rounds of glock .40 ammo and so in the event I am still alive after the initial attack and some of my buddies are gone I will as needed and if possible without getting shot up ... get their ammo.

Re: Too Much Ammo
 

Ammo carriers could have a more important role in the game, if ammo counts were lowered.

Re: Too Much Ammo
 

They are already a big cheat for the human player, since the AI has absolutely no knowledge of the things.

If you would like to add them to the AI - please do suggest an algorithm that would work, without the CPU kamikaze-charging ammo trucks out into the bullet-swept front lines to top off Corporal Snuffy's rifle section which is down by 10 rounds. Or should Corporal Snuffy retire to the rear zone to top off?. If so, should he bring the rest of the platoon so he stays in command distance of platoon HQ, and if that drags his company HQ back, well then... Or is that ATGM team in the wood more worthy of a visit, or the mortar section, or the empty SAM up on the hill (surrounded by enemy paras)?.

And yes, I have looked at the problem in the past and not seen any sane solution for the AI and ammo resupply.

But you may have a better idea - if so, please express it in C or at least pseudo-code for us.

Then again perhaps we should just treat the units like other board and tabletop wargames do, and ignore ammo resupply completely, on the premise that units have enough for a typical engagement?.

Andy

Re: Too Much Ammo
 

When playing against the AI, humans have quite a few advantages, ammo resupply is just one of them.
I agree with Andy's suggestion that if you're playing against the AI and want to limit one of those advantages, then don't buy ammo resupply units.

For PBEM games, you are right that ammo resupply would become more important, and both should buy resupply units.

When I've played with my low ammo infantry mod against the AI, I did not buy ammo resupply, and I found that only a few of my infantry units might have a SMG or rifle slot run out of ammo.

AI infantry units were less likely to run low on ammo - in my battles - because they were on the losing side. The winning side is the one whose infantry will generally run low on ammo first. Which means low ammo will usually help the AI, because it helps limit human dominance over the AI.



Cross

Re: Too Much Ammo
 

A comprehensive solution would require a very sophisticated AI, there is no doubt about that. The way I would suggest to do it would be to limit AI ammo resupply to indirect fire units (mortars and on-map arty). These are the units that in real life are the most likely to receive additional ammo during a battle and if they run out of ammo, it has the biggest overall negative effect on combat effectiveness of the whole force. They are also usually placed the farthest away from enemy units (even by AI), which would diminish the possibility of AI supply vehicles running into player units. Of course that would still happen all the time, but it wouldn't be as stupid or unrealistic as trying to resupply a frontline infantry unit with an horse drawn ammo cart...