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-   -   Jets & Planes but no UAV's here. (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46891)

Marcello January 14th, 2011 05:01 AM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 768463)
Gates changing course based on other countries advances in equipment and accelerated procurement efforts. I see more RAPTORS which could mean more delays or less F-35s for the U.S. The last is my assessment concerning the F-35, but money is money and we have only so much to spend.

Not going to happen. Bloody political battles have been waged on the F-22/F-35 and issues have been settled; I cannot imagine everyone saying: OK, we have screwed up, back to the drawing board. That is not how politics works; you would need an extremely compelling reason to overcome that and a couple of prototypes we know little about isn't enough to do that.
Besides you can only trim the F-35 program so much for a variety of reasons (economies of scale, US allies etc.).

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 26th, 2011 03:54 AM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.
5 Attachment(s)
Was on my list and then saw it brought up separately before posting my last patch page. Since Don has addressed this for the game, here then is my tribute to the plane , those that flew'em and those that kept'em flying.
Combined 700 Billion GPD in 2009 contract expenditure on life cycle and engine upgrades for the HARRIER.

Attachment 10796

HMS ARK ROYAL pulls into port for the last time.


Concerning the final flyover.
Attachment 10797 Attachment 10798

Attachment 10799

Attachment 10800 Proud as they should be and no better way for a send off then with the "Pipes", I know I had the honor of one at my retirement ceremony.

Though he had some "thoughts" about the MOD decision at the final flyover, RNC Nigel "Sharkey" Ward wrote an excellent book on the Falklands War and the role of the HARRIER while serving as a flight leader there. I got to see PELE play for the
Mid-Atlantic Cup while with the NY COSMOS but, he was almost overshadowed by the war as the Argentina team and fans found themselves very unwelcome at the Meadowlands Stadium at the time after some "demonstrations" of their own. Not something to do with a NY crowd!


FASTBOAT TOUGH January 26th, 2011 04:42 AM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.
Sorry SEA HARRIER retired in March 2006. It should of course be the joint services GR9 HARRIER.

The last covers the Corps (Which have been upgraded since this was published.), SPAINISH and ITALIAN Navy versions. INDIA flies the SEA HARRIER but I believe they may be "grounded" now.
Good Night and Have a Great Day!


DRG January 26th, 2011 10:17 AM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 769444)
INDIA flies the SEA HARRIER but I believe they may be "grounded" now.


Oct 31/10: The Financial Times reports that Britain is looking to sell its fleet of advanced Harrier II GR9s, adding that India is seen as a potential customer:

“India and the US are the two most promising markets for more than 50 of the most up-to-date Harriers, which will otherwise be consigned to the scrap-yard or museum. Peter Luff, defence procurement minister, told the Financial Times that some of the kit axed in the defence review… might still find a home abroad.”

and Re : Grounding


Aug 26/09: Sify News reports India’s grounding of its Sea Harrier fleet. Indian navy spokesman P.V.S. Satish:

“The fleet has been grounded for immediate physical checks on all the flying controls…. We’re likely to finish that in 48 to 72 hours and thereafter the fleet will be cleared.”

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 26th, 2011 12:43 PM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.
Thanks Don!
I did raise the idea of a possible sale in the APC thread
Post #71 as purely supposition on my part. With the written word on the topic I would guess India has the best shot to buy them. We're cutting back and our Congress is looking for more than SECDEF Gates is offering in cuts now. Spain is not far from needing a bailout from the EU as well if things don't improve. Italy isn't far behind plus it's on going political scandal. Though the both of them are better off then Greece, Ireland, Portugal and they fall in order as I put them above if the "domino's" keep falling. But India is expanding (Economy.) at about 4 to 6% of GDP a year and as I've been posting is modernizing and expanding their military rapidly over the last few years.
Honestly I have to plead complete ignorance to the length of the grounding, I thought it might've been in the order of months similar to Germany's grounding of the Eurocopter AH. Never looked into it with the HARRIER.
Thanks again for the info!!


FASTBOAT TOUGH January 29th, 2011 04:56 AM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.
As I stated in my last APC post of earlier today the "winds of change" are a coming. No program is safe and the stakes have been increased outside the U.S. by China and Russia as I've posted. These changes are putting the F-35 further at risk here for us and it doesn't help when you announce more delays to the program around the time the SECDEF is announcing his budget cuts and Congress has since said it might not be enough. There's already talk of restarting production of the F-22 again even though it's a more expensive plane. Why? It's a proven jet that has exceeded expectations in all areas including in maintaining it. Also it's stealthier then the F-35. And it's thought to be better then the J-20 and Su-50 PAK FA already as well. Some of this I've posted from AUSA etc. on the analysis of the various aircraft just discussed. It might not totally be dead if the U.S. cancels it (SLAMRAAM is a perfect example, it got killed by SECDEF on 6 JAN. 2011 but, the program as far as I know is still pushing forward for the European countries that have been interested in it.) but if we do, will those same countries be willing to bear the costs involved to get it to production? So as usual we have more questions then answers but I'm confident we'll have a clearer picture of the situation by years end if not sooner.

More problems for the F-35, not a good thing at this time.
Some insight as to why the F-35B was put on "probation", and will there be "bleed over" for the F-35A and C?
The case for the F-22 in case you didn't like my case for it.

Well again everyone have a great weekend! Time to hit the rack, it's a work day for me later today, take care all!


Marcello January 29th, 2011 11:39 AM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.
The problem with killing the F-35 and restarting the F-22 line is that it leaves the US Navy and several US allies out in the cold. And it does not provide the numbers to flesh out the USAF as the older platforms retire.Then there is politics.
So, no matter what people say over the internet, unless the F-35 fails in such a spectacular manner that not even Baghdad Bob finds a way to spin favorably the F-35 is going forward.

Warwick January 31st, 2011 06:37 PM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.
Doesn't look like Gates decision to cancel the alternative engine for the F-35 (the F136) was such a bright idea!


FASTBOAT TOUGH January 31st, 2011 11:23 PM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.
I've used the following source quite regularly over the last year or more in matters concerning India's military equipment most notably the ARJUN and ARJUN MKII. Since starting this thread it's time to bring some of that insight here on this thread. I've commented on the issues in a general manner elsewhere concerning the relations between India and China. Mr. Skula was a Colonel in the Indian Army and now writes for the well respected Business Standard. I hope you find these to your liking as two of the top five economies and top ten in military procurement and development square off in their own "cold war" of sorts.
For a little background:

On the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) Program:

Chinese J-20 and how it affects India and the region:


FASTBOAT TOUGH February 12th, 2011 06:04 PM

Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.
Lot's of news here:

1. Was the J-20 "combat" video rigged?

2. A sample of how important India is seen in the current fighter procurement process. See this site and others for more.

3. USN pilot completes first naval F-35 test flight.

4. USAF C-17 GLOBEMASTER III first to use bio-fuel mix.

5. USAF evaluates Brazil's Embraer A-129 light attack aircraft.

6. A400M starts cold weather trials in Sweden.

7. Spain completes prototype flight test of it's RESET of their AV8B HARRIERs.


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