Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Greetings.

I've put together a version of the Balance Mod that will work with the SE:V version 1.00 release.

The original purpose of this mod was to supplant the default data files that are provided with Space Empires V with balanced files that retained the spirit of the standard game. A collection of SE:V beta testers participated in its development providing suggestions, comments, and some data files to assist in the development of the Balance Mod. Hopefully the mod addresses most of the issues that take away from the standard SE:V game. And of course, the mod will continue to be updated with SE:V and there is always more work to be done - especially with the AI.

You can find out more about it and download it here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Thanks CK

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

yes more work on the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Err, out of curiosity, why wasnt the game 'balanced' to begin with? Is it really that far off? Looking through the list of changes, it appears that quite a bit was changed.

I was really hoping to not have to mod the hell of the game in order to have some semblance of balance. SE4 was pretty awful in its stock form for balance, but I was really hoping that stuff like this would have been a priority for SE5.

Thanks!

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

The existence of this balance mod answers such questions, I think. It maintains all of the flavor of SE5 stock, but has had a hammer of balance used on it. Though Kwok did most of the work, there was a lot of discussion with other beta testers going into it.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I think the priority was more on the "moddable" aspect o fthe game which went from incredible (in SEIV) to unbelievable (in SEV)...

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Well, to be fair, it actually is down-graded in this day and age compared to games like Civilization 4... SE5 just feels so stunted after pouring over Civ4 for a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Well, Aaron could have included this AS stock, but didn't.
The betas did encourage balance fixes, but they're impossible to really do piecemeal.

As far as priorities, the stuff we can fix on our own is pretty low. Fixing bugs in the hardcode and making it more flexible and/or useful were the main priorities.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Is Civ4 very moddable also? I played it but never looked for mod. It actually felt much more boring than SE for me.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

The data is stored in XML files (which you can add new tags to via hooks in the SDK), a lot of the game scripting is done in python files you can change, and much of the core game logic is in a C++ DLL file that there is a SDK for. Almost the entire game can be modified. It's approaching an open source app in terms of how alterable it is.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Do you have an example or name of mod which radically changed civ4, like adamant for SE ?
So I can check it out, as my mind still cannot accept a game to be more moddable than SE...

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

For all your Civ needs, including Civ 4...

http://www.civfanatics.com/
http://forums.civfanatics.com/

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Ever heard of the Fall from Heaven mod for Civ4? Turns Civ4 into a fantasy game complete with elves, dwarves, undead, etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I think it's more moddable in the sense that you can alter game logic aspects. Although I do think Fyron is selling SE:V a bit short in terms of the game's amount of modability.

But back on topic:

Unfortunately work on the balance mod didn't start soon enough for it to be considered a replacement for the current default data files. I'm still hoping it might be in the future, but I think it's more likely that it might be included as an extra on a Deluxe release etc. The good thing about the internal mod launcher is that it makes just as easy to choose a mod as the standard game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

SE5 is certainly much more moddable than SE4, but you can't say SE5 is one of the most moddable strategy games like you could say of SE4 when it came out... Comparing modifying static text files with a little tiny bit of scripting (events and AI) to being able to program in entirely new types of game logic in any portion of the game engine is apples and oranges. You can't really alter the logic in the game engine in SE5.

Don't worry Kwok, this'll be my last post on this in this topic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ed Kolis said:
...Fall from Heaven mod for Civ4?

Make sure to get the FFH2 version, not version 1. FFH2 adds spellcasting, oh my! There is a Genetic Era mod for Warlords that, amongst other things, adds the ability to colonize sea terrain (late in the tech tree, but still). Sure, CTP did it first, but at least it can be "modded" in to Civ4 with the DLL SDK. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif There are all sorts of nifty little features that various people have made. Check out the Core Community Project for a sampling of them; it's an attempt to get a standardized DLL that different mods can use. There is a mercenaries mod, which adds a way to recruit mercenary units for gold. The Star Wars mod being developed uses it, for one.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

*Kwok uses the spellcaster to rid this thread of Fyron's off-topic posts and casts them into oblivion.

-----

Anyone try out the mod yet? First impressions?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

This is a very good mod and a tremendous step in the right direction for SE V. You deserve a lot of thanks for this mod Kwok.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Kwok, you are the bomb.

Here's a quote from a Strategy First press release: (from Aaron, I'm sure)

“We here at Malfador Machinations are very excited that “Space Empires V” is finally available for purchase. We’ve put a lot of work into this game, but the work hasn’t stopped. We continue to work with our beta testers and plan on releasing improvements October 16th, 2006!”

Guess we can look for the first patch then.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Wow, this fixed like, most of the problems I had with SEV.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Which actually puts it beyond the reach of most of us.

I modded my own Civ I via hex-editing the game files, but actually accomplished a fair amount (tech tree, etc...) following pretty simple instructions widely available on the BBS pre-Internet of the time.

I modded the crap out of Civ II - that was truly easy to mod. I created wads of my own unit graphics, etc... The engine had its issues, but it was sure easy to mod the tech tree & units.

Civ III was moderately easy to add stuff rolled up by high-enders, but the learning curve for rolling my own units was too steep for my available time (gainfully employed professional with wife & two pre-pubescent kids). So, I just collected units toward the goal of having tribe-specific graphics for all units in all tribes.

Civ IV - fuggidaboudit! A tutorial for what you have to do to add a unit that somebody else rolled makes my eyes glaze over... The Civ III goal lives in spirit (my 3rd grade daughter has developed an interest in this sort of thing, and I'd love to give her the Civ IV of my dreams), but I can't see myself sorting it out...

As to SEV, frankly I love the modability of the data, but I tried my hand as doing flags today and didn't like my results - 3D ship models are clearly beyond my capabilities. So, I'm going to be relying on you high-enders to give me some good stuff!

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Space Yards for bases are back in early game! Woo!

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Damn, what an improvement.

I played a game, and the Jraenar had sent a fleet of seven ships to "have a word with me" after 36 turns. Unfortunately for them cap ship missiles + fighters >>>> single DU cannon frigates, so the conversation didn't really go their way but in the demo I don't think I ever saw the AI send seven ships anywhere, certainly not that early. I don't know how much of that is down to playing on "hard" and how much is Kwoks tweaking (AI likes base space yards, for instance) but, either way, this is a huge step in the right direction.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I'm gald you're enjoying it.

One of the things on the AI to-do list is improving their Point-Defense capabilities, particularly at the beginning of the game.

I think the change to how the AI decides its colony types is working out pretty good as they're building much better resource colonies improving their economy greatly.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Another thing is that the AI really doesn't like researching larger hull sizes. It's about 60 turns in now, and the only AI I've encountered with anything larger than 250kt frigates is one who's spounging technology off me. This is a problem because, amongst the other disadvantages of tiny hulls, there's no room for PD after it's put weapons in.

I've noticed their bases always have some point defence.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

The research files haven't been optimized for the mod yet really. There's been some changes to address the overall reduction in levels, but not much work has been done in prioritizing certain techs. Also on the to-do list.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Great Mod so far. Keep up the great work. Question tho. Since you made a special version of your mod for 1.00. After the patch, will we have to restart a new game or is the present game we save compatible?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Yes, but only because I'm cruel and I want to move the position of some components and stuff like that around. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Hrm, Intel seems buggered. I have 10 to 15 level 2 facilities in my HOME system, and the intel screen shows that I'm not getting any points. Bug?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I haven't experience any problems with intel points not showing up. Silly question, but the planet has population etc?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I've been working on doing just exactly that. The AI scripting language is quite rich, and so I've been working on adding a layer of multi-turn strategic planning to a race. Eventually it could become a Commanders and Heros mod, but it's got quite a ways to go yet.

Anyone know the variable scoping rules as they relate to turn processing?

CK, during the early part of a game I set everything to hard (no tech points, bad homeworlds, no bonus race points, many hard enemies, etc). I met the Phong, who were happy to see me and agreed to a treaty that involved showing me their ship designs. They all seem great (I like that supplies & ordinance now count as cargo).

Except one ship came out odd: They designed a SpaceYard Ship, without having the hull space for it. It was fitted into an early Frigate, but with your mod it is possible to put it into a later model Freighter. So their design algo might need a cross-check and a hull switch.
http://home.comcast.net/~anglewyrm/spaceyardship.jpg

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Aye, and my race has Natural Merchants, PLUS a spaceport in it. So it SHOULD be coming through. Resources and Research are coming through fine, but Intel is just being lethargic or some such.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

This is a wonderful mod that makes “Stock” playable.

On behalf of Edward Jr., Amber, and myself,
Thank you CPT Kwok

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Thanks Shang! Lots of improvements to be made still though! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

-----

AngleWyrm:
There needs to be some work done on entering size restrictions for various ship types. Right now the scripts are not setup in any real fashion to facilitate doing this, but I do plan on getting to it soon.

This sort of thing was also a problem with how weapons and stuff were being added onto units. The scripts set certain percentages of hull space to be used for weapons, armor and shields, but the default files only specify this for ships, WPs, and "units". In many cases, the values were not appropriate, especially after I reduced the size of the units and balanced the ship sizes and engine space amounts etc. I had to add new variables to create guidelines for each one instead in order to make them to better designs.

-----

Note that you can use the auto-complete function with just about any ship type in the list.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I noticed on the balance mod when I auto-comleted an entry level troop that it did not place a weapon on it and only filled 3/8. It put a cockpit and 2 engines.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

That's odd. I get 2 thrusters (2kT), a DUC (3kT), a cockpit (1kT), a Combat Sensor (1kT) and an armor (1kT). Did you pick "Troop" for the design type? It's easy to choose another one by mistake.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I think I may have chosen attack ship... good call

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Ok, one possibility (assuming the scripts are fairly similar), this is my understanding of what's going on -- correct me if I'm horribly wrong!

in Script_AI_DesignCreation.txt -> Can_Create_Design_Type_Of_Type()
it does a Pick_Vehicle_Size(), which gets the size from a global lst_AI_Design_Type_Vehicle_Size list. That list is populated in Script_AI_Global_Settings.txt -> AI_Set_Race_Design_Types().

So the entry for "Space Yard Ship" in AI_Set_Race_Design_Types function could have:
set veh_size_class := AI_VEHICLE_SIZE_CLASS_FREIGHTER

As to minimum space needed for a viable design (part + requirements) I'm not sure if the function exists, but could be created if it's not:
is_minimum_space_available() could be called during Can_Create_Design_Of_Type(), and bail if there isn't room.

Bleh, I'm cross-eyed now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

It's just a matter of figuring out how to use the vehicle_tonnage variable for a ship that has prevented me from fixing that up really.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Just an idea but how about some smaller facilities, like this.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Nice ideas but the goal was to keep it as "stock-like" as possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Found system-level tonnage functions:

Sys_Get_Vehicle_Size_Tonnage_Space: long
plr_index:long
size_id:long

Sys_Get_Component_Tonnage_Space: long
plr_index: long
comp_id: long
comp_enh_id: long

Sys_Get_Vehicle_Design_Remaining_Tonnage_Space: long
design_id: long

//////////////
Looking at the internals of Add_Required_Components_To_Design, the function returns a boolean success, which might be feathered in as a bail flag if a large componant doesn't fit:

replacing:
if (comp_id > 0) then
call Add_Components_To_Vehicle_Design()
set bool_continue_design := TRUE
endif

with:
if (comp_id > 0) then
bool_continue_design := Add_Components_To_Vehicle_Design()
endif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

The new patch does in fact break the balance mod.

It says: "could not find field "override InvConfig Slots" in record 1"

EDIT: Doh. Just add the line "Override InvConfiguration Slots := FALSE" to mod_definition.txt

EDIT 2: Also add "Space Combat Ends Only When Time Up Or No Enemies := FALSE" to settings.txt.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I've been told CK had a balance mod version for 1.07 version.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I should have posted here earlier. An updated version of the Balance Mod will not be ready until later tonight. I'm stuck at work right now and then I have to test a few changes I made first before I can post the update. I'll be sure to let you know when that is.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Error message attached.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Bug in the latest version of the balance mod- at least for me, anytime I try to generate a map with the mod on, the game hangs.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Ack. I didn't take down the download fast enough. It was the wrong AtmosphereTypes.txt file - one of my SFEmod files got mixed in there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

It should be ok to download now though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Thanks Kwok! big improvement on stock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

My level 5 Space Yard ship components are building at a rate of 10,000kts, this can't be right.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Have you patched to 1.08? If not, I'm assuming you have selected Hardy Industrialists?