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FASTBOAT TOUGH September 12th, 2009 02:26 AM

MRAPs
 
1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 8830Good Day All,
On the next update is it likely that we might see the MRAP? In service since 2004 and numbering around 3-4000 vehicles in it's various varients it would be great to see the new larger 11 passenger model available. With advertised speeds of 65mph on hard surfaces and 45-50mph over rough terrain it's a can do vehicle which can carry an auto operated gatling or 50 cal. (It's being tested to operate with other weapons such as a 40mm) and still provide a high survibility to both crew and passengers.

The next deal with crews using an Abrams tank as an example:
1. Surviving crew forced to disperse, could they not be integrated into the replacement tank crew thus causing a slight increase to the new tanks moral or exprience modifiers? Or would this be to big of a software headache?

2. And more important to me, when changing from Abrams to an improved one, let the old tank go to the depot but let me keep my crew. Normally we're only talking about improved guns and systems that are trained on in the field. If this is already being done and I'm just missing this I apoloize in advance.:doh:

As an update to my 10-04-08 post on U.S. Patriot transport, I went back to check and none of the available ground transport units will carry the Patriot missile.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

Marcello September 12th, 2009 08:14 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 709816)
The next deal with crews using an Abrams tank as an example:
1. Surviving crew forced to disperse, could they not be integrated into the replacement tank crew thus causing a slight increase to the new tanks moral or exprience modifiers? Or would this be to big of a software headache?

2. And more important to me, when changing from Abrams to an improved one, let the old tank go to the depot but let me keep my crew. Normally we're only talking about improved guns and systems that are trained on in the field. If this is already being done and I'm just missing this I apoloize in advance.:doh:

I don't understand what you mean here. Are you referring to upgrade during campaigns?
To the best of my knowledge crew experience is already retained by surviving crews and during upgrades.

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 12th, 2009 11:03 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Marcello,
Good Morning!
Sorry I didn't explain in more detail but was in the wind down mode from work. To #1. of my crew question: I know surving crew that are unmolested will return after the battle is over in the "repair" phase of a campaign game. However I don't believe this happens when due to ememy fire (or friendly air or arty) the crew takes further casualities and the surviving crew are forced to "disperse".
Concerning #2 I don't believe (and as stated on the first post I could be wrong here.) That again while in the "repair" phase when I "change" to a newer version of an Abrams for example that the current crew mans the the newer version Abrams I just upgraded to. I know this isn't feasible if changing from say a Bradley to an Abrams but should be allowed from Abrams to Abrams so as not to lose the crews exprience level. Again this is in the campaign mode. Hope this helps and thank you for your reply!
Pat

Suhiir September 12th, 2009 11:18 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 709816)
Good Day All,
On the next update is it likely that we might see the MRAP? In service since 2004 and numbering around 3-4000 vehicles in it's various varients it would be great to see the new larger 11 passenger model available.

The MRAP is in the USA/USMC OOB's now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 709816)
The next deal with crews using an Abrams tank as an example:
1. Surviving crew forced to disperse, could they not be integrated into the replacement tank crew thus causing a slight increase to the new tanks moral or exprience modifiers? Or would this be to big of a software headache?

Game engine limitation. When a crew is dispersed the "unit" is destroyed. The game tracks units not individual soldiers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 709816)
2. And more important to me, when changing from Abrams to an improved one, let the old tank go to the depot but let me keep my crew. Normally we're only talking about improved guns and systems that are trained on in the field. If this is already being done and I'm just missing this I apoloize in advance.:doh:

The crew does transfer to the new tank when you upgrade. But, they lose some of their experience and morale in the process. How much is variable, but the loss isn't usually so much that they become less skilled then a brand new crew would be. Think of it this way...the crew was use to their old vehicle and knew where everything was and how it worked. Now they have a new vehicle but are still use to the old one, so while they may be very skilled they will not operate as effectively with the new vehicle as they did with the old one until they get use to it.

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 12th, 2009 11:35 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Suhiir,
Thank you for clearing up the crew question. I understand all and maybe I'm playing to hard to have missed the crew transfer issue to upgraded units.
On the MRAP I'll look again but I only download from the "official" patches (current to 4.5). Will check on it now.
Have a great day!
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 12th, 2009 11:54 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
:confused:Follow up to MRAP, Checked my v4.5 "Encyclopaedia" the MRAP isn't in there.

hoplitis September 12th, 2009 05:15 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
USMC ORBAT
The "Cougars" are there alright!
Suhiir knows THAT orbat, believe me! :D

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 13th, 2009 04:27 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
:banghead OK, here I go again! First I've only downloaded the "official" patches to my 1st Edition CD, ALL the patches through 4.5 are loaded (And in order.). I've rechecked MY Encyclopaedia several times in the last 3-4 weeks since watching "LOCK N' LOAD" with the Gunney that featured the MRAP/Cougar. I've even generated a handful of campaign games dated from various time periods 2004-2010 and it's just not available to me on MY game. If the patch isn't coming from the developers it's NOT getting downloaded to this computer, it goes to my job, but this is not meant to insult the people out there who take the time to make the game better for others. So PLEASE if the MRAP/Cougar is on the "base" game or was in one of the patches you need to give me more info as to how it is listed or what patch it was on so I can reload if needed. I have various Styrkers out the ... and the M98(?) FOX for the newer platform APC's and that's all.
Thanks again for your time but I need more "Then it's there trust me". :shake:
Pat

Mobhack September 13th, 2009 05:57 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
1) As others have explained already, the MRAP vehicles are already available in the USMC OOB. See units 506-508 in that OOB. Not currently in the USA OOB, but you can use the allies function to purchase.

2) I looked at the patriot. That has a ridiculously high load cost such than no vehicle (or the landing barge) can carry it. Area SAM load costs will need to be reviewed this winter's change cycle.

Fix: Mobhack it (and any other area SAM that is not a vehicle like the S-400) to weight cost 20. Not 99+.

cheers
Andy

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 13th, 2009 06:24 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Andy,
Thank you for clearing this up. An earlier reply indiciated the MRAP was available on the USA inventory already and to be honest I haven't used the USMC in this game. In the future I'll use the allie function - thank you! I'll assume you read my "update" post on the Patriot Transport issue and the importance of the
M983 Tractor to make the system work. Will try to figure out how to use the MOHACK to make the load change if not, hope the info provided will help towards the next patch. After all Winters not that far off! Many thanks again! And good night/morning!
Pat :D

Suhiir September 13th, 2009 03:27 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 709977)
1) As others have explained already, the MRAP vehicles are already available in the USMC OOB. See units 506-508 in that OOB. Not currently in the USA OOB, but you can use the allies function to purchase.

cheers
Andy

Swore I saw it in some other OOB besides USMC...Iraq maybe?
((Not at home so can't check))

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoplitis (Post 709906)
USMC ORBAT
The "Cougars" are there alright!
Suhiir knows THAT orbat, believe me! :D

*chuckles*

Imp September 13th, 2009 06:40 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Concerning #2 I don't believe (and as stated on the first post I could be wrong here.)
Dont take as gospel but vehicle crews in a campaign work like this.
They gain any experience from the battle then if upgrade/switch vehicles the following happens.
To same type of vehicle as in tank to tank minor exp loss as its new equipment.
To a difrent type of vehicle bigger exp loss
If the vehicle is destroyed the game still checks think fairly random if enough crew survived & there is a chance they do & transfer to the new vehicle.
Same applies to all units change to a diffrent unit type they take a small experince loss. The bigger the diffrence in unit type the bigger the loss, for instance switching a squad to a vehicle or SAM unit.
Hope that helps

DRG September 14th, 2009 05:49 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
The Cougar/ HEV/ MRAP is on the list to add to the US OOB

For now you can "borrow" them from the Marines

Don

Suhiir September 15th, 2009 12:39 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 710096)
The Cougar/ HEV/ MRAP is on the list to add to the US OOB

For now you can "borrow" them from the Marines

Don


Just like the US Army borrowed LAV's from the USMC during Desert Storm :)

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 18th, 2009 12:18 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Just started a 21 game generated campaign USMC vs Russia/Iran/Russia June 2009 - Nov. 2010. Just curious, will the newer 2 crew 11 personel 6x6 MRAP (and more capable.) I brought up in my original post be available to the game in the future? I believe the History Channel show "Lock n Load" expects it to be fielded by mid 2010 for both USA and USMC and aillies. Also will we be able to buy them by the section or platoon as you can with the MRAP 4x4's in the game now? Currently the USMC MRAP 6x6 (10 Per.) is tied to an organic light engineer team in the game.
Concerning the Patriot transport issue I both respectfully disagree that no unit can transport the Patriot (except currently in the game.) and kindly would refer you to my "update" post I submitted concerning the ground transport of the US Patriot Missile and the systems dependency on the Tractor to provide the launchers power.
With Regards,
Pat

DRG September 19th, 2009 03:36 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 710805)
Just started a 21 game generated campaign USMC vs Russia/Iran/Russia June 2009 - Nov. 2010. Just curious, will the newer 2 crew 11 personel 6x6 MRAP (and more capable.) I brought up in my original post be available to the game in the future?

Isn't that what I said three posts ago ???

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 20th, 2009 02:01 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Don,
Sorry for the confusion thought you were just shifting over the USMC ones in the game (current 6x6 holds 10per.) w/o including the newer 6x6 I originally mentioned.:doh:
Pat
"In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

gila September 20th, 2009 02:51 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Your brain is going too fast.

He said it will be added next patch friend!

gila September 20th, 2009 03:01 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 710040)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoplitis (Post 709906)
USMC ORBAT
The "Cougars" are there alright!
Suhiir knows THAT orbat, believe me! :D

*chuckles*

Like your new avatar Suhiir, a devil fairy cute but bet it packs a serious punch:p

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 20th, 2009 08:38 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 8829GILA,
I'll give you that, working second shift 2-10/or 3-11 EST and it taking another hour to get home after downloading, the winding down process can take awhile before I finally crawl into bed. This morning that was at 0730 (Thank God these are my off days.) it was a well fought battle with the AI but not worth the price paid this day. Anyway this is why I already have so many thanks and "sorrys" out there compared to my posts. I do appreciate all that is done for the game and gamers. But most importantly to those that check my posts and take the time to reply I THANK YOU and DO APOLISE for any past or future issues. I like what I do in my military retirement but the job is what the job is and all that comes with it! By the way any room for submarines in this game!?! To all have a great day!!
With Warm Regards to All,
Pat:yawn:

Lt. Ketch September 22nd, 2009 06:11 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 711332)
Attachment 8829GILA,
...the job is what the job is and all that comes with it!

Been there, done that. Try not to do it, doesn't always work.

Quote:

By the way any room for submarines in this game!?!
Yes, it's called the "exit" key. If you hit it and never come back to the game, just say that you had a boomer nuke the site with an ICBM and everybody is dead :)

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 23rd, 2009 12:43 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
1 Attachment(s)
LT.,
I agree about the job and the exit key, it would make things to easy especially when the AI is playing you tough. Better to go down fighting and learning from it then to lose face. My last boat here had a big exit button.
PatAttachment 8848

Suhiir September 23rd, 2009 10:18 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gila (Post 711188)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 710040)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoplitis (Post 709906)
USMC ORBAT
The "Cougars" are there alright!
Suhiir knows THAT orbat, believe me! :D

*chuckles*

Like your new avatar Suhiir, a devil fairy cute but bet it packs a serious punch:p

She seemed appropriate ;)

gila September 23rd, 2009 07:09 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 711332)
Attachment 8829GILA,
By the way any room for submarines in this game!?! To all have a great day!!
With Warm Regards to All,
Pat:yawn:

Launch nuclear weapons on such a small maps we are playing here??

Then whats left?Or who?:rolleyes:

I really question using B-52's accuracy with HE until after the 90's.

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 24th, 2009 02:37 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 8850Come on now the whole "nuke" thing was just a joke to lighten things up at the end of the post.
V/R
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 28th, 2009 12:59 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
5 Attachment(s)
Good Evening!
Thought you might want to see what's here that's new and what could be coming in the next couple of years or sooner. Everyone seems to scrambling to either get or improve the MRAP's they have or both. A newer class (M-ATV) is now available to the USA made by Oshkosh and Plasan North America (for advanced armor tech.). Oshkosh has been awarded a contract by the DOD for the USA of an order for 2,444 units with potential to reach 10K units. They will be heading to Afghanistan by the end of this year, 45 were on hand already which the army took delivery of. Though not mentioned seems to me it's going to replace the Hummer for GP use with those numbers, pictures follow.
Attachment 8885 Attachment 8886

Next is BAEs (of South Africa) RG35 crew 2 with a 15 passenger capacity. Tested to climb up to a 60 degree incline. No buyers yet but expected to be tested by UK at the end of the year or early 2010, pictures follow. :cool:
Attachment 8887 Attachment 8888

Finally, Universal Engineering's (UE) RANGER crew 2 with either
4 to 6 passenger capacity with modular construction. Available in 4X4, 6X6 and 8X8 versions. No buyers yet though UK interested, UE is a private British firm, picture follows.
Attachment 8889

RG35 and RANGER meet Level 4 A/B mark as set by STANAG 4569 for MAX. protection in Class (Anti-Tank Mines, Shaped Charges Etc.). Both about 550HP, 115km (70mph?)on road with a 1000km range
(550mi?). Sources Defence Update and US DOD sites.

V/R
Pat

Lt. Ketch September 28th, 2009 06:18 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 711853)
Attachment 8850Come on now the whole "nuke" thing was just a joke to lighten things up at the end of the post.
V/R
Pat

I would like to see the mushroom cload on my screen though.

Nice pictures Fastboat. I'm looking for a new car. Do you think the dealership would have one of those for under 10 grad? :p

FASTBOAT TOUGH September 29th, 2009 11:29 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
LT.,
You'll be a little short! The M(RAP)-ATV will cost you 73.3K, I guess that's a bargain considering the Hummer 1 civilian version cost 100K when it was available. The more I dig into this the more I'm finding the major effort being put into the MRAP by various countries. Also there appears to be the same effort being put into new APC designs. A lot of joint venture stuff going on out there. But APC development will need to be a new thread. Hey maybe I can go there myself (Great there he goes again!:rolleyes:)!?!
Pat
:)

FASTBOAT TOUGH October 1st, 2009 01:44 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Good Morning!
This is the latest off the drawing board vehicle that might make into the game at some point hopefully. This vehicle falls into if you will the "lightweight" category of MRAPs with all the same design characteristics. Designated, Lightweight Protected Mobility Vehicle (PMV-L), THALES Australia and PLASAN SASE of Israel have teamed together to build the HAWKEI which has its roots in the Bushmaster vehicle. Australia's' military has bought 1300 units which will be field by 2013 to replace the military's entire Land Rover fleet. The HAWKEI will be available to buyers outside Australia. Boeing Australia is working on new logistic systems to support the HAWKEI. Picture follows:

Attachment 8916

Postscript: CBS Evening News I recorded while at work ran a story on the increased troop request when they showed a shot of
2 M-ATV's in Afganistan. Please see post above on the M-ATV.
Sources: Defence Update and CBS News.

Imp October 1st, 2009 08:57 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Quote:

the "lightweight" category of MRAPs
:D :D :D
For taxis most of these are incredibly heavy so much so that most bridges are unusable. From what I have read this weight & the fact it is high up due to mine protection means offroad performance is severly limited, already been quite a few roll over accidents with them. Perhaps in game should be given 2WD possibly 4WD for "lightweights" move rates to represent this.

FASTBOAT TOUGH October 2nd, 2009 03:37 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Just wanted to provide more info on the HAWKEI by THALES. Can carry six passengers at plus 110km/h (60-65mph?) all info seems to be "coy" about the speed, have seen this on other sites besides my named sources. Info also seems to indicate fully loaded at top speed a range of 1000km (550mi.?) can be achieved. Have found no info concerning any issues about top heaviness or rollovers. It would be at this point important to note that every MRAP AND PMV-L I've found are designed for the present and future battle field commander, in short they are fully battle field integrated (BFI) and have separate on-board power systems to support those BFI systems these are not your Willy's Jeep or first gen Hummers. This info from articles in the last 24-48hrs. Sources: AussieDigger.com (ADF Active Duty and Retiree site) and DefenceTalk.com. Also YouTube has a clip, I didn't watch. Better picture follows: Attachment 8924

Good Night and Have a Better Tommorrow!
V/R
Pat :yawn:

FASTBOAT TOUGH October 4th, 2009 03:12 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Just wanted to clarify, though I know this hasn't been brought up (THANK YOU!) because I think everyone understood my meaning, I'll be using Battlefield Management System (BMS) which seems to be a more accepted military and industry term. Sorry if my use of Battlefield Intregated System (BFI/BFIS) caused any issues.
V/R
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH October 29th, 2009 01:56 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
3 Attachment(s)
Good Day!
British MOD replacing Mastiff "1" (A variant of the USMC Cougar.) with the Mastiff 2. With lessons learned in Afghanistan MOD has determined that the Mastiff wasn't meeting all the mission requirements due to the conditions encountered in Afghanistan. Mastiff 2 was designed to be better integrated with British forces and arrived in Afghanistan in June 2009 with 300 units currently in service. Though available in other variants, its primary purpose is as a Patrol protection vehicle. Manufactured by Force Protection; integration by NP Aerospace, the Mastiff 2 features a higher ground clearance of 15in. w/bigger axles and suspension system. Also it has driver and weapons thermal imagining with on-board BMS. Carries a fuel tank fire suppression system and increased internal armor protection. Crew 2 w/6 passengers, 4x4 w/330HP CAT C-7 Diesel, Spd. 105km/h 65mph, Rng.966km 600mi. Arm. 7.62 GPMG, w/12.7mm HMG or 40mm GMG in a remote operated turret. Pictures:
Attachment 9013Attachment 9014Attachment 9015
Source for all material: army-technology.com
Good Night with Regards!
Pat:yawn:

thatguy96 October 29th, 2009 05:11 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Just to be clear on this, the Mastiff is a Force Protection Cougar variant. These vehicles were bought as COTS items and that name was not given to them by the USMC. That's the name they have always been marketed under by Force Protection (there's some issue with the Typhoon nomenclature, but if this did exist, it didn't last very long). Mastiff, and now Mastiff 2 are names applied to subvariants of the pattern tailored to British needs, just as the USMC and US Army have a number of Cougar subvariants in service. The British were also investigating a 4x4 subvariant, referred to as the Ridgeback, and Force Protection's new Tactical Support Vehicle Cougar variant as the Wolfhound.

More info:
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/fig...cles/1483.aspx
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...d/mrap-var.htm

FASTBOAT TOUGH November 9th, 2009 05:11 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
2 Attachment(s)
The South African Army (SAA) under Project Sepula is looking to replace the CASSPIR and MAMBA with the RG-35 MRAP by 2012. This would mean to BAE South Africa an order of 1,232 units to outfit SAA's 4 regular and 6 reserve Infantry Battalions. It is likely the order will be increased to further augment 1 regular and 3 reserve Internal Stability Battalions (ISB) as well.
BAE will offer a 4x4 RG-35 variant as well. New Pictures:
Attachment 9046 Attachment 9047

Source for info and pictures: army-technology.com

FASTBOAT TOUGH December 23rd, 2009 01:51 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Just a quick update Osh Kosh has just delivered it's 1000th
M-ATV as reported by army-technology.com. Lots going on in the MRAP world but will do my best with this and APC's. Thanks!!
Pat
Happy Holidays to ALL!:):happy::)

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 14th, 2010 03:49 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
3 Attachment(s)
Good Morning!
Next up the SandCat. Designed by PLASAN of Israel to replace the AIL Storm jeeps of the IDF, it was relaunched at EUROSATORY Show in 2008 as a brand with OSHKOSH Defence.
It's built on a comm. FORD 550 chassis w/a FORD 6.4L diesel with duel fuel tanks TC of 120L, 325hp @ 3000rpm w/ an ALLISON 2000 Auto Trans. Max Speed 75mph/120km/h. Payloads by variant Utility 2,109kg/Crew 5, Transport 1,814kg/Crew 8 and Special Ops (SOV) 2300kg/Crew 4. Features V-Hull, full crew advanced suppression seating for mine blast etc., 5 zone fire suppression system for the crew and engine compartments, fuel cells,wheel wells and exterior hull. Superstructure has three layered armed panels, ceramic outer tiles, middle wall and inner SPALL Liners throughout for fragmentation protection. Also available is a heavier "B" armor package that is crew applied in the field. Fully loaded it also has a 18in. vertical climb/clearance rate w/39 degree side slope man.
Current interest British Army poss. 400 units under the LPPV Program. ADF 121 UNITS under "OVERLANDER" Phase 4 program and the Dutch unspec. # for their Wheeled Vehicle Replacement Program (WVRP). As always:
Attachment 9241 Attachment 9242 Attachment 9243
And no this is NOT the USA/USMC M-ATV.
ALSO as a side note the RANGER (posted earlier) is undergoing validation testing w/ the "BA" in Dorset UK.
Sources: Pri. army-technology.com (and photos) Sec. defence-update.com
Have a good night!!
Pat:yawn:

Suhiir January 14th, 2010 12:23 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Last I checked the USA/USMC M-ATV was going nowhere in a hurry.
One of the main reasons they want them is because these days most of HUMMERs are being armored, and of course they're too wide to fit in most current medium helos so they need something smaller and lighter.
But, of course, a vocal faction insists they need to be armored, which makes them to heavy to do the job they're intended for.
So as it stands, while the M-ATV may still be in development, the USMC at least, has no real interest in them.

thatguy96 January 14th, 2010 04:31 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Committing to buy 6,500 vehicles sounds like at least someone has an interest in them (even if its only Oshkosh heh). The first 2 vehicles arrived in Afghanistan in September. By that point DoD had issued contracts for a little over 5,000 M-ATVs.

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 15th, 2010 01:50 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Here's another article from logistics command about M-ATV:
http://www.dla.mil/DLAPublic/DLA_Med...es.aspx?ID=500. And yes OSHKOSH is contracted over the 6500 unit mark within the last month to include a contract through the Army that will lead to the Marines getting about 1,100 units and the Air Force and "my" Navy just under a 100 units each. Again OSHKOSH did deliver it's 1000th unit last month. As pointed in this article and MANY other places "my" (Since I ultimatley still get paid by him in my current position and the taxpayer.) SECDEF has said the MRAP and M-ATV programs represents the largest design to production since WWII. Powerful stuff and don't we all wish we owned some OSHKOSH stock now...well better a year or two ago anyway!?!:doh:
Pat

Suhiir January 15th, 2010 02:33 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
MmmmK - my info was out-of-date, I stand corrected.
Thanks!

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 16th, 2010 03:42 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Everything's good! There's just so much info out there I (we) end up "reacting" to it. This was good for me in that it showed me that my 3 primary sources were up to date, ahead of many others and accurate when cross referenced. I researched the sources and have only felt comfortable in the recent few months to start putting info out here (hence the year or so gap since I first posted.). It's not about who's right or wrong, or who can pile it on, personally I just want to be as accurate as possible, be informative, have some fun and hopefully see some of this equipment get into the game as time allows. The inputs I've recieved from some I hope I've learned from as I know my initial MRAP and Patriot battery posts caused some...:re:,:rolleyes:and:banghead as they did for me to. So I'll do the best I can and someday at the WinSPMBT retirement home we can sit around and have some good :cheers: though I have to admit I'm pretty uncompromising in my tastes there, must be that Irish/German stock in me!?! Yes Don and Andy I'll get back on topic, is it just me or does it seem like they're just everywhere!?! Have a good night all and a great weekend!!
Pat

DRG January 16th, 2010 12:31 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Normally I copy down everything like this for the erros list to investigate but this thread I didn't becasue it was generating so much info. I have added somethings ( the RG35 for one ) but it's looking more and more like the existing work is going to take me right up to the release date in March.

What I need now is a consise list, by nation of every one of these vehicles that is KNOWN to be in production or in service. I don't need things that are on the drawing board that might/maybe be produced in 5 years.

Nation / Name of vehicle / Indroduction date / number of men it will carry / link to photograph and further information

so


South Africa / RG35 / 2012 / 14 men / LINK

That will speed the process considerably

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 17th, 2010 03:09 AM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Don,
Understand, keep items at "KISS" for upcoming patch. At your convenience, can you by the numbers just give me quick answers to the following:
1. Understand RG-35 is in (thanks!), do you need me to go back and resubmit the other equipment I've already posted as well on the MRAP/APC threads?
2. Is Singapore going in? Because of Terrex and others.
3. Plan to focus on the 2009-2012 time frame, is this acceptable to reduce load on all concerned or go further out for equipment to be fielded only within the time frame?
4. What's my deadline for submissions?
For your info will be on vacation away from home 1-9 Feb. Will post to my related threads and will suspend until the deadline my longer posts so you know there's something there for you or others that might be assisting you.
Thanks!
Pat

DRG January 17th, 2010 12:20 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
1- What I need is a simple list like I described of the "for sure" vehicles to save a lot of time I really don't have to spare ATM

2- There is NO chance Singapore is going into the game. What you see now is what you get

3, see #1, I just want the "for sures"

4- the sooner the better but I still have 45 pages of items to get through plus a major comb through of the weapons data so I'm not at a loss for things to do. I don't "need" this until Mid Feb.

Like I said, I just need someone to comb through this thread and set down a nice simple list like I suggested and it will help me get though this faster. Given all I have to do there is always a chance only a few will get into this release but that all depends on what's left to do by the beginning of March. By then I will NOT have 8 + hours a day available to work on this



Don

thatguy96 January 18th, 2010 12:11 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
As of December 2009, the number of MRAP variants and subvariants in service or being developed for the US military stood at 28, including the new M-ATV. The links provided are to the Globalsecurity.org site's main pages on the variants in question. There are additional links on those pages to information on the programs. I try to keep them more or less up to date. Any errors in the information here are my own.

The US Army's Program Executive Office Combat Support and Combat Service Support had been designated the joint program office for the MRAP program. Of the systems listed, only the M-ATV was listed as being at Milestone 6, Full-Rate Production. The rest of the vehicles were listed as Milestone 7, Operations and Sustainment. It would appear that so far, once an MRAP type has been accepted, there is no rush to phase it out.

An additional two vehicles were still being managed by the Program Manager for Anti-Mine Systems. This office had been the organization first bring MRAP type vehicles into inventory before the official start of the MRAP program in 2007.

The managed programs and systems directory for PEO CS&CSS can be found here (PDF).

Between 2002 and 2004, the US Army awarded contracts for the purchase of 25 Buffalo mine-protected vehicles through a company called Technical Solutions Group.

United States Army / Buffalo / 2003 / 2+4 men / LINK

These vehicles were procured as part of the Ground Stand-Off Mine Detection System (GSTAMIDS) program. Also acquired under this program were the Meerkat and Husky Mk I mine-detection vehicles. An improved Husky Mk II replaced both the Husky Mk I and the Meerkat components of the system by 2007. By 2008, the a variant of the Husky equipped with a ground penetrating radar detection system was fielded, referred to as the Husky Mounted Detection System (HMDS). The USMC is known to have borrowed some Husky vehicles for operations in Afghanistan in January 2009 and to have expressed interest in acquiring its own. A further improved Husky Mk III vehicle was introduced sometime in 2009.

United States Army / Meerkat/Husky Mk I / 2003 / No Passengers / LINK
United States Army / Husky Mk II / 2007 / No Passengers / LINK
United States Army / Husky Mk II HMDS / 2008 / No Passengers / LINK
USMC / Husky Mk II / 2009 / No Passengers / LINK
US Army / Husky Mk III / 2009 / No Passengers / LINK

Around the same time as the initial purchases of the Meerkat and Husky, the US Army made the decision to purchase a limited number of RG-31 MPVs as control vehicles for the GSTAMIDS vehicle team of Meerkat/Husky and Buffalos. The US Army acquired the first 9 RG-31 vehicles between 2003 and 2004.

United States Army / RG-31 / 2003 / 2+6 / LINK

In 2005, the US Army and USMC began investigating vehicles to transport engineer and EOD teams and provide them with additional protection against hazards they were increasingly facing in Iraq. The Medium Mine Protected Vehicle (MMPV) and Joint Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) Rapid Response Vehicle (JERRV) were procured in mid-2005 for this purpose. The MMPV was more or less a COTS Force Protection Cougar 4x4, while the JERRV was a Cougar 6x6, which had been modified for the purposes of carrying necessary engineering/EOD equipment. JERRVs can be identified by various stowage boxes other 6x6 Cougars do not have. In the USMC, the vehicles were referred to as Hardened Engineering Vehicles (HEVs).

United States Army/USMC / Cougar 4x4/Cougar 6x6 / 2005 / 2+8 / LINK

In November 2006, the Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicle program is formally initiated. It issues its first contracts in January 2007. The vehicles selected in its two categories, one for a 4x4 vehicle to conduct patrols and other missions being carried out by up-armored HMMWVs, and a 6x6 vehicle to conduct various support missions, are the Force Protection Cougar, International (later Navistar Defense) MaxxPro, Land Systems OMC RG-33L, Stewart and Stevenson Tactical Vehicle (later Global Tactical Systems) Caiman, and the Force Protection Buffalo. By June 2007, the Land Systems OMC RG-33 had been added to the Category I procurement. The RG-31, and an improved RG-31A1 are also procured later under Category I. The Buffalo was later moved to a Category III for vehicles tailored to dealing with IEDs and Mines.

United States Army / MaxxPro / 2007 / 2+6 / LINK
United States Army / Caiman / 2007 / 2+10 / LINK
United States Army / RG-31A1 / 2007 / 2+6 / LINK
United States Army/USMC / RG-33 / 2007 / ? / LINK
United States Army/USMC / RG-33L / 2007 / ? / LINK

In mid-2007, the MRAP JPO initiates work on an MRAP II program. This was in response to the increasing threat from Explosively Formed Penetrators (EFPs). Around the same time, a crash program to upgrade the armor on existing MRAPs to defeat these weapons comes into existence as well, the MRAP Expedient Armor Program (MEAP). The MRAP II program does not lead to any additional vehicle procurement directly. None of the vehicles apparently meet the desired requirements. However, Global Tactical Systems did offer a 4x4 Caiman "Light" as part of the program which was subsequently procured as part of the basic MRAP program as a standard Category I vehicle. The MEAP modifications become integrated into existing and new production vehicles. These are generally represented by an A2 designator, MEAP designator, or Plus designator, depending on manufacturer.

United States Army / Buffalo A2 / 2003 / 2+4 men / LINK
United States Army / Caiman Plus/Caiman Light/ / 2008 / 2+10 / LINK
United States Army/USMC / Cougar 4x4/Cougar 6x6 A2 / 2008 / 2+8 / LINK
United States Army/USMC / RG-33/L Plus / 2008 / ? / LINK
United States Army / MaxxPro MEAP/Plus / 2008 / 2+6 / LINK

In early 2008, the US Army also successfully tested its Self Protection Adaptive Roller Kit (SPARK; a mine-roller) on the RG-31 series vehicles. This roller kit was also deployed on HMMWVs and 5-ton trucks.

United States Army / UA HMMWV w/ SPARK / 2008 / ? / LINK
United States Army / RG-31/A1 w/ SPARK / 2008 / 2+6 / LINK
United States Army / M900-series w/ SPARK / 2008 / ? / LINK

By Mid-2008, the US Army and USMC have begun procurement of a further improved RG-31 series vehicle, the Mk 5E. This vehicle is also referred to as the RG-31A2. The RG-31A3, which I believe is the Mk 6 vehicle, was procured further after that, but it is unclear when. I'm also unclear when Navistar Defense released the MaxxPro Dash, a lighter weight, higher performance version of the standard MaxxPro vehicle.

United States Army/USMC / RG-31 Mk 5E/A2 / Mid-2008 / 2+6 / LINK
United States Army/USMC / RG-31A3 / Late-2008? / 2+6 / LINK
United States Army / MaxxPro Dash / 2008? / 2+4 / LINK

Almost all MRAP vehicles have been fitted with, to some degree, remote weapon stations. The types fitted appear to be either the XM101 CROWS or XM153 CROWS II. This appears to have started in early 2008. Variants of the RG-33 family have also been procured specially configured for special operations use since the beginning of the MRAP program.

United States Army/USMC / RG-33L Heavily Armored Ground Ambulance (HAGA) / 2007 / ? / LINK
United States Army/USMC / RG-33 USSOCOM / 2007-2008 / ? / LINK
United States Army/USMC / RG-33L USSOCOM Armored Utility Vehicle (AUV) / 2008 / ? / LINK

Suhiir January 19th, 2010 12:30 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
For WinSPMBT purposes you could easily ignore the USMC "Joint Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) Rapid Response Vehicle (JERRV)"/"Hardened Engineering Vehicle (HEV)".

While they could be of use for a "insurgent ambushing an EOD team" type scenario, they're used only by EOD and not something you'd ever see in a "combat zone".

FASTBOAT TOUGH January 29th, 2010 02:10 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Someone is there an auto save or save draft mode for these posts. Trying to get MRAP updates in and when I go to preview the post I'm timed out or something? Getting frustrated!! And time is short before I leave. Maybe
5th time will be the charm, gotta stay positive here.
Thanks,
Pat

thatguy96 January 29th, 2010 04:22 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
I had the same problem trying to put in info about British, Dutch, and Canadian MRAPs. I really should make the post again, but I got frustrated initially and bailed on it.

thatguy96 January 29th, 2010 05:08 PM

Re: MRAPs and a couple of general questions.
 
Here we go again:

Netherlands / RG-31 Nyala / Late 2006 / 2+6 / link
Netherlands / Bushmaster MPV / October 2006 / ? / link
Netherlands / Bushmaster MPV w/ ROI Raven R-400 RWS / ~2007 / ? / link

The Dutch only received 5 RG-31s from Canadian Forces in Afghanistan until the arrival of their Bushmasters in October 2006. This is probably a debatable addition.

Canada / Buffalo / Late-2007 / 2+4 men / link
Canada / Cougar 6x6 / Late-2007 / 2+8 men / link

These are debatable since Canada is reported to have acquired only 5 of each.

UK / Mastiff 2 / June 2009 / 2+8 men / link
UK / Wolfhound / Late-2009 / ? / link
UK / Husky / Late-2009 / ? / link

Woulfhound is the British name for Force Protection's new Tactical Support Vehicle (TSV), a Cougar variant. The Husky is based on Navistar's MXT family, a losing entry in the M-ATV program. There is some suggestion that the British Army is using a 4x4 Cougar A2 variant, referred to as the Ridgeback, essentially a 4x4 version of the Mastiff. I can't seem to find any concrete info on this quickly and its not the on the MoD website.

UK / Ridgeback / Mid-Late-2009/Early-2010? / ? / link, link 2

The British also contracted with Technical Solutions Group (an entity related to what is now Force Protection) in 2001 for the delivery of 8 mine protected vehicles based on the Lion 4x4, the vehicle from which the Buffalo and Cougar were eventually derived. The Buffalo was derived from the 6x6 Lion II vehicle, while the Cougar was a vastly improved derivative of the original 4x4 vehicle. It is not at all clear what happened to the vehicles. Delivery was apparently complete by February 2003 and there was still mention of the vehicles as of 2006 (referred to only as Mine Protected Vehicles). These vehicles were referred to as Tempest by TSG, Typhoon being the name initially applied to the 6x6 variant that became the basis for the Cougar.

UK / Tempest / February 2003 / 2+6 / link, link 2


Picture of Tempest


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