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-   -   Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=50744)

dmnt April 10th, 2015 06:17 AM

Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
First of all, thanks for the magnificent job! It's got (almost) everything except the army standard kitchen sink.

However I noted a couple of things that are erroneous without a doubt.

Some units had "bad ammo" warnings (Weapon 93, 45mm L46 Gun).
Unit 366: BA-10 has sabot ammo
Unit 580: 45mm Coast Gun has sabot ammo
Probably should have more AP ammo instead? Or missing alternative ammo penetration figures?

Reserve sections have Orak teams (Unit 780) with X3 radio code: this probably will mess up the formations if fielded before M72 LAW was available, like 252 Reserve Platoon (1946-2020). Split Reserve Platoon into two formations, 1946-1995 and 1996-2020 maybe?

Unit 17: T-72M1S
Unit has carry capacity of 13 (also had this in 8.0). Finns don't ride on tanks in general and this should be 0.

Unit 354: T-54 KMT-5
Unit 410: T-54s PsvP
Unit 411: T-54s PsvP
This is a T-54-3 in mine rolling / close support role, but the changes done to unit 13 haven't been done to 354, 410 or 411.

Unit 400: CV9030S
Class was changed to Heavy APC, should be Heavy MRV APC (can protect passengers from 10 kg (22 lbs) of TNT exploded under track)


Then some less obvious and/or uncertain corrections:
BMP-2FIN laser range finder: there are no explicit mentions on the LRF but as the system is equipped to be "on par with CV90 shooting capabilities" it is most likely to be there.

M72 LAW upgrade (66 KES 12, M72 EC LAW Mk.I) missing, adding it is a major task and could probably wait until next bigger upgrade. Also in use now is the bunker buster version, 66 KES 12 RAK (M72 ASM RC).

dmnt June 19th, 2015 08:56 AM

Re: Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
I'll continue the notes for current (9.1) OOB here:

Finland has tested the F-18 MLU2 capabilities by firing three different types of JDAM glide bombs.

MLU2 was started in 2012 and by June 2015 half of the fleet has been upgraded. Now JDAM has been tested so maybe it's time to add the JDAM and JSOW-C to the arsenal. In 2016 the JASSM is to be in operational use.

1/2015: JDAMs in operational use
?/2015: JSOW-C (not fired yet?)
?/2016: JASSM

Sources:
"From the start of next year (2015) JDAM bombs will enter operational use with their over 10 km range.

- Additionally we will take into use JSOW glide bombs which range over 100 km. During 2016 the Air Force is meant to start phasing in JASSM missile operations. They range over 370 km, Heikkinen says."
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/ar...755225749.html

"Air Forces performed air-to-surface test firings in Rovajärvi firing range June 8th to 12th. The test firings were fired from Hornet (F-18) multipurpose jets using the JDAM bombs that were included in the new MLU2 life cycle upgrade."
FDF magazine Ruotuväki

AGM65D was apparently never purchased for Finnish Air Forces and BL755 CBU I haven't heard of. AGM65 Maverick was an option at one point but AFAIK it subsided as JDAM and friends entered the stage.

Sipri lists AIM-120C AMRAAM (2005), JDAM (2011) and AGM-158A JASSMASM (2013) in purchases (excluding Stinger here) from the US to Finland in 2005-2014. Before MLU2 the Finnish F-18 had limited air-to-surface capability and no designated weapoins for that.

http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade...e_register.php

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 19th, 2015 12:33 PM

Re: Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
I know I'm very late to your first post here, but, concerning UNIT 17 T-72M1S I don't believe Don is worried about the doctrine of any OOB, as much as the tanks ability and design factors to allow it to carry troops. Why if the the unit is capable of the carry would anyone want to take that away? What if you had a pinned unit at risk (Especially a core unit.) and you had no other unit available except a near by T-72M1S, I would think those troops would gladly risk extraction by tank vs. the alternative of not doing so. I've done it many times myself.

Regards,
Pat

DRG June 19th, 2015 12:45 PM

Re: Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
Pat

Making the one unit zero would put it in step with the majority modern era of Finn Tanks..............BUT the reason it has a carry capacity and the other modern era ones do not is that particular model does not have active protection devices in this case VRRSS the two other T-72M1S in the OOB have VRRSS and zero carry capacity just as unit 14----T-55AS HAS carry capacity and no VRRSS whereas unit 15---T-55MS HAS VRRSS and NO carry cap

It's got nothing to do with "Doctrine" if you know Finns don't ride on tank........ don't put them on tanks

Don

dmnt June 25th, 2015 02:50 PM

Re: Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
Upgraded SPAAG Marksman was presented for the first time in public June 4th.

The platform has been upgraded but the turret looks from the outside pretty much the same apart from the thingy between the barrels. This box is missing from some of the units seen in pictures.

At the same display the SP-Mortar (Bv206 based) was presented for public.

dmnt July 22nd, 2015 06:47 PM

Re: Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
Quick addition: 40 KRKK 2005 (40mm AGL) can be installed on the same vehicle platform as 12.7 mm AAMG.
40 KRKK 2005 on mil.fi

"Voidaan käyttää sekä ajoneuvon kehälavetilta että tukikohtajalustalla" = "May be operated both on a vehicle platform and on a tripod"

That said, on XA-180/185 APCs the AGL is definitely an option and I suspect it is also the case on XA-203s as the AAMG uses a custom mount adapter to fit to Norwegian (NATO?) standard mount. (I operated 12.7mm AAMG on XA-180 as well as in terrain in FDF in 1999)

ADD
Copy of unit 049, XA-180. Replace gun: #242 and give 30 HE and 10 HEAT ammo. Radio code 91 (rare). Available 1/2005-12/2020
Copy of unit 050, XA-185. Replace gun: #242 and give 30 HE and 10 HEAT ammo. Radio code 91 (rare). Available 1/2005-12/2020
Copy of unit 051, XA-203. Replace gun: #242 and give 30 HE and 10 HEAT ammo. Radio code 91 (rare). Available 1/2005-12/2020

dmnt July 29th, 2015 03:57 PM

Re: Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
I found the probable source of AMOS + STRIX unit found in earlier OOBs.

In early 2006 Panssari-lehti ("Armour Magazine") wrote that each AMOS would be equipped with 4 STRIX rounds. However, since that things have progressed and IM/CM is confidential so it may or may not have materialized, probably never came to use.

About T-72 APFSDS ammunition I contacted Cpt Mika Mäenpää from Panssariprikaati and according to his recollection nothing newer than 3BM-17 or 3BM-15 ("125mm D81T 75/72") was never received to Finland. Also according to his knowledge, there is no public record apart from the old copies of Panssari-lehti mentioned earlier.

MODIFY
Unit 018 T-72M1S
Weapon 1: 101 - 125mm D81T 75
Unit 019 T-72M1S
Weapon 1: 101 - 125mm D81T 75

dmnt August 5th, 2015 12:48 PM

Re: Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
Quick note: FDF presented modernized equipment in public today.

On the list (http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2015...36327_uu.shtml, pics)
- Leopard 2A4 mine roller configuration
- SPAAG upgrade with Leopard 2 platform
- BMP-2M

http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2015...35752_uu.shtml
- M72 ("Orak") anti-bunker version "88 KES 12 RAK"
- New assault rifle with optics and night vision equipment capability (already used by Guard "for years already" as stated by the article)

dmnt August 6th, 2015 08:14 AM

Re: Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
FDF info PDF:
http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/wcm/a2...df?MOD=AJPERES

dmnt August 6th, 2015 08:36 AM

Re: Finnish OOB 9.0 corrections
 
Add
Leopard 2A4 URDAN
Copy unit 024
Possibly remove weapon 3 (AAMG) - although 2A6 doesn't list AAMG either.
Unit class: 36 - Mine clearing vehicle
Available: 1/2012 onwards (currently in service: modifications done 2010-2011)

ItPsv Leo2:
Copy unit 321
Update hull and top armour to match Leopard 2A4S. Update speed. Revise FC and RF numbers for the original as well; it has been told to be good enough even against low flying near Mach 1 speed aircrafts.

BV308:
Copy Swedish BV308 as is.

BV206 Mortar:
Add 81mm mortar similarly to unit 334 SP-Mortar for NA-140

Modify
Unit 033
Rename to BMP-2M
Available: 1/2016 onwards

XA-180M:
No modifications needed for current unit. XA-180 can maybe stand for both unit types.

Inf weapons related
KeS Orak upgrade, mentioned earlier. 6/2015 or 1/2016 onwards.
Increasing number of 7.62 RK + Opt (red dot sight 2009)
Optical sights (2014) for PKM LMG, night vision equipment enabled.


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