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-   -   DRM questions (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=50548)

MischiefMaker December 15th, 2014 10:15 PM

DRM questions
Aw crap! This is the first time I've bought a shrapnel game that needed online registration.

I wipe my PC yearly. So what's the deal with this DRM? Can I re-register the game on a fresh install? Do I have a limited number of installs?

Fennrick December 15th, 2014 10:26 PM

Re: DRM questions
Can't say to much about this, but to me it seems to be the same DRM, they used a few years back with dominions 3. Meaning: The first time you start the game, you enter your key and then you forget about it. Installing and unlocking the game on multiple pcs you own should be possible and legal.
And yes, you should be able to unlock your game as often as you want to. (Or atleast as long as the DRM Servers are running.)

Thats just what i think. Don't know for sure.

ibol December 15th, 2014 10:46 PM

Re: DRM questions
The DRM is new, written by me & my database friend.
You can have 3 'unique installs'.
this means , on 3 different machines or partitions, whatever.
And yes, after installation & registration, it won't bug you again.

if you uninstall, and re-install on same machine,
that does *not* count as a unique install.
You might have to enter your serial # again,
But it should work.

And down the line, if good customers have legitimate reasons for needing one more install, you probably won't be turned down.

The point is to deter piracy.

Cyberis December 16th, 2014 12:28 AM

Re: DRM questions
I have 5 laptops (2 Mac and 3 Windows) and 3 desktops -- they're all mine and only mine. I was hoping to install on each of them (I dropbox the save directory so I can play on any of those machines with the same game). I carry 3 laptops with me but use them at different times and places. The desktops are in my home lab as are two laptops spread all over the house. I'm not a pirate, but they sure are fun to shoot.

ibol December 16th, 2014 09:19 AM

Re: DRM questions
When you upgrade your cyborg body with 5 laps, 8 heads and 16 arms, maybe we can do something.

Cyberis December 16th, 2014 12:53 PM

Re: DRM questions
Seriously, as a software developer I understand the high value of the IP so DRM might make sense if it deters more piracy than potential customers. I really do have the machines I've mentioned, I really do shift which ones I use through out the day or week and while I can probably pick 3 to install on I wonder why I would have to do so.

Fair use (1 license, 1 user) would suggest allowance to install on all those machines. I'm not a pirate, I pay for whatever I use (I have no pirated software whatsoever including overused shareware, over installed software or illegally shared from/with friends) and many of my tools (or services like Steam) allow for me to be liberal with my machines as long as I don't have the software/game running (or possibly installed) on too many simultaneously.

Sure Adobe, Microsoft, et al. have DRM but they've been moving toward a simultaneous use case or at least allowed for activation and deactivation of a generous number of machines. Even iTunes allows for 5 computers and unlimited devices with activation/deactivation. Obviously there are trade offs (more intrusive but flexible DRM vs bug once, die later).

I should mention, I upgrade my machines a lot (1 to 2 times a year). Which upgrades will burn an activation? Also, what happens 3, 5, 10 years down the road? I think your game has a real good chance of having a nethack or weird worlds type of lifespan but not if it has DRM. I'm sure you could patch it then to remove the DRM but now people have to download that patch if they can even find it.

I bought the game and I'm sure I'll enjoy it tremendously but I'm not buying a second copy to satisfy a DRM requirement and I'll be a bit more careful who I recommend it too since some people just won't buy or play a DRM'd game on a PC.

I regularly re-purchase a game from a source like GOG where the DRM has been removed just so I don't have to worry about what machine I have it on at the time. Lately, I've been waiting for a game to be offered DRM free before buying it or buying it from a DRM free source if its available. Xenonauts is a recent example.

Well, that's my 2 cents plus a dollar. DRM isn't an easy subject with a simple answer.

ibol December 16th, 2014 01:08 PM

Re: DRM questions
I just can't believe the backlash.

Steam, with it's 10 million users, is a huge DRM machine.
Steam is constantly running in the background, it downloads things, it tells you which of your friends are playing what game, etc.

AI makes one check.

I don't expect people to buy multiple copies. It's not some kind of selling trick. I own 3 computers, only one of which I use regularly. But how many people truly need to have the game running on multiple machines at any given time?

Cyberis, you have dealt with me. You know my dedication to and support for this game. It is the day after release. Let's just enjoy the game for a while, ok?

Cyberis December 16th, 2014 01:30 PM

Re: DRM questions
I'm a special case (or maybe just "special":-p). Yep Steam and Origin are big DRM pits which is why I'm buying more and more stuff from GOG or HUMBLE. I'm sure when my game arrives I'll be too busy playing to grouse.

boatrigm December 16th, 2014 06:17 PM

Re: DRM questions
I've got a similar issue. I have an HTPC in the living room, a gaming pc, business laptop and a personal laptop. I haven't bought the game yet but have played the demo a lot.

I buy 95% of my games DRM free. Steam is a huge DRM issue but I've never had an issue installing games as many times as needed over the years. I do stay away from any game that has TAGS DRM. It would be nice if it just had a serial number like Matrix Games and no online activation. I also don't buy from John Tiller's site. I buy from HPS because of the no DRM.

Anyway, I hope the DRM on AI ends up getting removed and then I might buy it. Still on the fence with the price. Just waiting to hear more reviews on the game to justify the price.

Just my 2 cents.


Cyberis December 16th, 2014 07:38 PM

Re: DRM questions
I should be getting the full version any day now. When I first saw the price (before playing the demo) I thought, wow, that's almost the price of a AAA title. But after playing the demo (I think I've played it for around 60 hours all total) I realized that I enjoyed the demo more than most full AAA tiles I've played which is why I forked over the cash. I'm really glad I did.

As for DRM, well that's something of a complex subject as I mentioned above. I think @ibol would be more reasonable than most to make allowances here and there wherever it would really be a hindrance to someone playing the game.

I made the mistake of objecting when really, I am a corner case to the extreme. I probably should have waited until I found the DRM to be problematic (if that would actually happen) and found no other solution. And I suppose for the time being that is going to determine its future in the game. If most players really can get by without more than three unique activations then it will likely remain. If that ends up being more trouble than it's worth, then the developer would likely revisit just as he would with game balance issues. In the short time I've been involved with playing I've found @ibol to be quite responsive so there's that to consider also.

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