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-   -   Mod: Warhammer Dwarfs, version 0.92 -- Quickfix (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44183)

Burnsaber October 18th, 2009 01:38 PM

Warhammer Dwarfs, version 0.92 -- Quickfix
 
Thread Moved

Frozen Lama October 18th, 2009 02:29 PM

Re: Warhammer Dwarfs, balancetest version 0.6
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnsaber (Post 715150)
[
Commander at def 20: Ancestor Stone

am i blind, or where is he on the cool picture with all the units?

Burnsaber October 18th, 2009 02:57 PM

Re: Warhammer Dwarfs, balancetest version 0.6
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Lama (Post 715161)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnsaber (Post 715150)
[
Commander at def 20: Ancestor Stone

am i blind, or where is he on the cool picture with all the units?

Sorry, sort of forgot to include it. Well, the unit will just have to be secret for now.

Fantomen October 18th, 2009 03:03 PM

Re: Warhammer Dwarfs, balancetest version 0.6
 
In terms of graphic quality, this is the prettiest mod I´ve seen so far. No kidding.

kianduatha October 18th, 2009 09:09 PM

Re: Warhammer Dwarfs, balancetest version 0.6
 
It looks absolutely gorgeous. Some thoughts:

Prospectors are amazing. So cheap, and the flanking miners are simply killer. Every dwarf player will have to consider the possibility of making a castle just to pump out these guys. And if you got death magic on your pretender...these guys are possibly the best non-caster assassins ever. I sent one out on a lark to a Death Match and he killed a Mother of Rivers.

Hammers are just not worth it, it seems. They have two shticks--hitting really hard and high morale. Unfortunately, Troll Slayers do both better and have 2 mapmove while costing the same amount of gold and fewer resources.

Province defense is simply insane. You are essentially immune to rushes because 10 province defense will deal with most early-game armies. At 20+ though the positioning is a bit weird with the Longbeards in back and the Heavy Crossbowmen in the very front, if that's able to be changed.

Both luck and misfortune are viable strategies. Your heroes are kickass(especially with the freespawning slayers) and you can use every gem you can, but misfortune is easy to deal with because 10 province defense everywhere makes you immune to barbarian attacks.

As far as pretender chassis goes, it seems like the dominion scores of the Mother of All and the Brother of War should be swapped. Otherwise there's such a difference in power between the two that there's no point ever getting a Brother of War. Besides, the Father of Runes is better in combat, frankly. Maybe give the Brother of War the standard Slayer-luck, too.

As far as straight-out power level goes...I'm thinking about a fight between the Dwarves and Ulm. At any stage of the game, Dwarves would wipe the floor with the poor suckers. The best advantage Dwarves have, though, is that it's an absolute pain to take them down. Between the killer province defense, 600 defence on the capital and most of your other castles, and a castle defense bonus of 3, almost any other nation seems a more tempting target. And that advantage in multiplayer can't be ignored.

Illuminated One October 18th, 2009 10:58 PM

Re: Warhammer Dwarfs, balancetest version 0.6
 
I agree about Ulm. It almost looks like Burnsaber took Ulm as a reference and made the dwarves at least slightly better in every respect.
Otoh Ulm could rely do with some improvements like these so I don't consider it bad.

One thing, though:
Why are all dwarves resistant to lightning and some to other stuff?
Should this represent their magic resistance?
I've always considered those natural phenoma that get triggered by magic. So resistance to magic shouldn't help you much when hit by lightning even if a mage conjured up the storm (just like mr wont help you if a mage telekineticaly shoots an arrow).
With high prot, high mr (+free drain), low enc, high damage, I find it hard to see how you are supposed to kill them except with lightning once buffed with weapons of sharpness and marbe warriors/army of ...

Some typos

vast Empire
Clansdwarf (For there isn't)
Ranger (aim with their throwing axes or aim when throwing their axes)
Longbeard (I think the last sentence is bad but maybe that's just me).

rdonj October 19th, 2009 02:36 AM

Re: Warhammer Dwarfs, balancetest version 0.6
 
No time to try them out today :(. I'm hoping I'll have a little free time tomorrow, but that is rare for me as of late. You'll probably have a new version out before I even install the mod, heh.

Burnsaber October 19th, 2009 08:23 AM

Re: Warhammer Dwarfs, balancetest version 0.6
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kianduatha (Post 715206)
Prospectors are amazing. So cheap, and the flanking miners are simply killer. Every dwarf player will have to consider the possibility of making a castle just to pump out these guys. And if you got death magic on your pretender...these guys are possibly the best non-caster assassins ever. I sent one out on a lark to a Death Match and he killed a Mother of Rivers.

Duly noted. I'll likely increase their cost a bit and make them poorleaders. And in order to keep the "stealth" aspect in order, I'll make the Journeyman Runesmith noleader. That way all three stealthy leaders will have a niche. Ranger Champions will be the beast leaders, prospectors do their summon thing and Journeysmiths are stealthy mages. (Which is plenty of a niche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kianduatha (Post 715206)
Hammers are just not worth it, it seems. They have two shticks--hitting really hard and high morale. Unfortunately, Troll Slayers do both better and have 2 mapmove while costing the same amount of gold and fewer resources.

Good Point. I'll probably have to make the Troll Slayers more expensive anyway. They are rare specialist troops and shouldn't be that massable. I think 40-50 gold might a more appropiate pricing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kianduatha (Post 715206)
Province defense is simply insane. You are essentially immune to rushes because 10 province defense will deal with most early-game armies. At 20+ though the positioning is a bit weird with the Longbeards in back and the Heavy Crossbowmen in the very front, if that's able to be changed.

Hmm, it's that good? I'll slice the troops in half. 0,5xCrossbow and Clansdwarf per point (same for the pd20+ recruits). I can likely fix the positioning of the pd20+ troops, but I'm not 100% sure

Quote:

Originally Posted by kianduatha (Post 715206)
As far as pretender chassis goes, it seems like the dominion scores of the Mother of All and the Brother of War should be swapped. Otherwise there's such a difference in power between the two that there's no point ever getting a Brother of War

Ok, good idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kianduatha (Post 715206)
Besides, the Father of Runes is better in combat, frankly. Maybe give the Brother of War the standard Slayer-luck, too.

The Father is quite crippled by his enc 7. Brother has fear, so he can go for awe+fear combo more easily. I'd rather not give the slayer luck for the Brother, because basically he is Grimnir and the blessings of the slayers (a'k'a their auto-luck) comes from him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kianduatha (Post 715206)
As far as straight-out power level goes...I'm thinking about a fight between the Dwarves and Ulm. At any stage of the game, Dwarves would wipe the floor with the poor suckers. The best advantage Dwarves have, though, is that it's an absolute pain to take them down. Between the killer province defense, 600 defence on the capital and most of your other castles, and a castle defense bonus of 3, almost any other nation seems a more tempting target. And that advantage in multiplayer can't be ignored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminated One (Post 715227)
I agree about Ulm. It almost looks like Burnsaber took Ulm as a reference and made the dwarves at least slightly better in every respect.
Otoh Ulm could rely do with some improvements like these so I don't consider it bad.

Yeah. I tried to stick to using Ulm as a balancing stick early on in the development. But really, everything just.. sucked. The nations have so similiar themes that the nations will basically overlap gameplay wise.

But, I'll just try again. I was thinking of giving all dwarf units like +5-7 base resource cost (to drive the 'few in number' point really home), then dwarfs will be even more resource hungry than Ulm and lack the "bonus resources from castles"-bonus that Ulm gets. I also realized that the 100% elemental random on Runelords is unecessary and a bit unthematic (the elemental randoms are just supposed to ease the player into paths of the Anvil of Doom). I'll make them F1E3 base with 50% EFS and 20% elemetal random. That change will make them less diverse than Ulm.

I also might get rid of the Drain-immunity. Sure, it's thematic, but it's not *that* necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminated One (Post 715227)
One thing, though:
Why are all dwarves resistant to lightning and some to other stuff?

It's supposed to represent their connection to the earth elemental (a'k'a sort of constantly being grounded). Also, in my orginal vision, the dwarfs were a bit less massable (I'll try to fix it pumping their resource costs). Because you basically don't have any chaff units, all air nations would take you as easy pickings. 5x Thunder Strike castings and all your troops are dead. Whoopsie!

Ironbreakers have some additional resistance to represent them from being runically warded from magical attacks. They are quite killable with their enc 7 in prolonged battles however.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminated One (Post 715227)
vast Empire
Clansdwarf (For there isn't)
Ranger (aim with their throwing axes or aim when throwing their axes)
Longbeard (I think the last sentence is bad but maybe that's just me).

Thanks. Duly noted.


On other news, I just heard that my lectures for firday were canceled. I'll likely be able to release a new balance quick-fix version then.

Humakty October 19th, 2009 12:42 PM

Re: Warhammer Dwarfs, balancetest version 0.6
 
I find it strange that the runesmiths don't loose magic power in battle. At least it doesn't appear in their stats. That's maybe why they seem that much OP, as a whole.

Illuminated One October 19th, 2009 02:19 PM

Re: Warhammer Dwarfs, balancetest version 0.6
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnsaber
It's supposed to represent their connection to the earth elemental (a'k'a sort of constantly being grounded). Also, in my orginal vision, the dwarfs were a bit less massable (I'll try to fix it pumping their resource costs). Because you basically don't have any chaff units, all air nations would take you as easy pickings. 5x Thunder Strike castings and all your troops are dead. Whoopsie!

Hmm, I don't think you won't have chaff troops. Militia is easy to come by.
Might be that with the Lighning res you're actually a lot better off against air nations because of the AI.


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