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-   -   Humlebaek Counterattack 1985 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=52292)

wulfir August 8th, 2019 05:35 PM

Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
1 Attachment(s)
WWIII has begun in Europe.

Warsaw Pact forces have struck Denmark hard, hammering their way north through Jutland and while also staging and amphibious operation against Sjaelland, desperately trying to open up the straits.


http://www.military-history-denmark....ort%201954.jpg



Troops and munitions on both sides are being consumed at a staggering rate.

With some difficulty the Danes on Sjaelland fight the invasion to a temporary standstill, when in a surprising move a second Warsaw Pact bridgehead is established north of Copenhagen.

The Danish command knows this move can potentially rupture the whole Sjaelland defence. It also knows the bridgehead must be quickly eliminated or it will grow too strong for the already hard pressed NATO forces of LANDZEALAND to deal with.

https://kalklandet.dk/sites/default/...ence_of_dk.jpg

The only immediately available forces to carry out the counter attack is a battalion size force drawn from a lower quality formation with originally intended to be used for defensive purposes.

If this new bridgehead can be defeated there might be time for American NATO reinforcements to arrive.

Conditions are far from ideal.

And you are the one to lead the whole thing…

https://kalklandet.dk/sites/default/...t_af_stevn.jpg



- - - - - - - - - -

This is a short winSPMBT campaign, essentially a fleshed out scenario.

I like to play big scenarios where there is plenty of freedom for the player – here you’ll get the opportunity to somewhat tailor your force to your play style fighting a few battles before the big showdown on the beaches of HUMLEBAEK.

The campaign uses a fixed core and was built assuming the player will fight with a mostly leg infantry force, supported by some of the oldest tanks in NATO frontline service during the mid 1980s…

...but it is possible to “sell off” and re-equip a force of your own choosing. With minimal tinkering one can also change the settings to an open core, set build points etc…

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psyziq5tz6.jpg

Suhiir August 8th, 2019 11:38 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
First battle wasn't what I was expecting.

I'm very happy to see an infantry campaign added to the game.
:up:

Anthony_Scott August 9th, 2019 12:55 AM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 845845)
First battle wasn't what I was expecting.

Same here. That supposedly sub-standard Danish force gave as good as it got wow...

wulfir August 11th, 2019 07:58 AM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 845845)
I'm very happy to see an infantry campaign added to the game.
:up:

Suhiir - the USMC makes an apperance at the end of the campaign, but yeah the Danes have the lead role...

If you want you can yourself edit the campaign and change player 1 to USMC (or any other country in the game), change the core option from fixed to open, set a suitable amount of build points and go to town. It might not be perfectly balanced but battles don't tend to be, so...

...btw, most of the campaign plays out on two 200x160 maps made with the Venhola program, around Fredensborg and Humlebaek (north of Copenhagen), Denmark. Took me a while to make, would be cool if they could be used for something else too. I can send them your way if you feel like whipping together a (USMC) campaign or a scenario set in Danmark, could be any year you fancy I guess but the maps are of course summer maps...

Suhiir August 12th, 2019 01:00 AM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Might look into using the maps sometime.

FASTBOAT TOUGH August 12th, 2019 04:15 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
WulFir,
I must say you have "peaked" my interest here mostly due to the flexibility you're allowing the player. I've NEVER downloaded a scenario before if it wasn't contained in a patch.

I might just make an exception here. I know since I was able to find a list of equipment from JANE's dated for 1981 the Danes had some decent tanks. So are any or all of these available...
MK41 BULLDOG, LEOPARD 1A3, CENTURIAN MK.V & MK.V2 (W/105mm L7A1) and MK III td (84mm). I haven't checked with SIPRI yet but, did the Danes have the TOW in '81? The tanks listed came off that list.

This for FYI only!
The CIA documents (Of which I posted many of in the Forum a few years back.) would've fully supported that the USMC would've been the first units to likely respond to Europe at the time besides the "RDJTF" one I read "suggested" an invasion on the Eastern Seaboard by Polish Marines supported by an overland invasion by the East Germans and Soviets from near Lubeck, Germany heading North.

Maybe time to look at a map of Denmark "to get the lay of the land", sounds like you've done a GREAT JOB HERE!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

wulfir August 12th, 2019 07:44 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 845866)
Maybe time to look at a map of Denmark "to get the lay of the land"

https://66.media.tumblr.com/dc6fd75b...igto1_1280.png

The arrow points to the area(s) I used to build the maps.

If you edit the campaign yourself - and it takes about 15 seconds - you can use any equipment in the Danish OOB.

The original campaign setup has a fixed core where the player will take command over parts of one of the Danish regimental size battle groups ("infanterikampgruppe") - Denmark fielded four of these on Sjealland and were primarily intended for defensive tasks. Each battle group had one "tank destroyer" company equipped with their oldest type of Centurion tanks.

There were other, stronger, Danish formations on Sjealland but the idea behind the campaign is to play with some of the less modern stuff. The battles have a large number of turns to make it possible to manouver leg infantry units...

When it comes to possible Allied reinforcements to Denmark the USMC is usually mentioned, along with the US Army 9th Infantry-Division (which IIRC had an unusual OOB) and the British 1st Infantry Brigade.

Suhiir August 12th, 2019 07:54 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Having been somewhat personally involved in operations in Norway in the late 70's I know it was anticipated the USMC would be primarily operating there. Denmark was something of an "Oh ****!" scenario on the assumption the US Army was heavily involved in Germany and the USMC forces were all that was available.

VS Soviet paratroops and naval infantry the USMC should do fine. But Soviet mech/armored formations just had to much armor and mobility for the USMC to deal with in any way but purely defensively. And Soviet air defenses would make the USMC reliance on air and helos problamatic (at best) in Denmark where there are no mountains to hide behind.

Then again, war is ALWAYS an "Oh ****" situation ... so you use what's available.

Suhiir August 12th, 2019 08:02 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH (Post 845866)
This for FYI only!
The CIA documents (Of which I posted many of in the Forum a few years back.) would've fully supported that the USMC would've been the first units to likely respond to Europe at the time besides the "RDJTF" one I read "suggested" an invasion on the Eastern Seaboard by Polish Marines supported by an overland invasion by the East Germans and Soviets from near Lubeck, Germany heading North.

If the USMC were commuted to mainland Europe I'm pretty sure it would have been to secure port facilities for the US Army to disembark at.

wulfir August 13th, 2019 01:02 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 845868)
But Soviet mech/armored formations just had to much armor and mobility for the USMC to deal with in any way but purely defensively.

This is an interesting problem. Still debated over here btw...

Suhiir August 13th, 2019 01:22 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfir (Post 845878)
This is an interesting problem. Still debated over here btw...

US Army Mech formations would have done much better offensively. Well enough? Hard to say. Still debated among some over here as well.

Suhiir August 15th, 2019 12:52 AM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Got the time to do scenario #2, and I "suspect" the unit changes I made using the repair/replace/expand points after scenario #1 had a lot to do with my results.

33 infantry losses, 3 Centurions damaged vs total Soviet destruction.

My upgrades consisted of trading in the pair of 106mm RRs for a pair of HAWKs (they're both "artillery"), swapping all the infantry armed with 60mm mortars for ones armed with Carl Gustafs, swapping the 3rd truck with the 81mm mortars for an ammo M-548 (better speed then an ammo truck), changing 4 of the 105mm howitzers for 120mm mortar sections and their md trucks for hv ones (that can carry 2x 120mm sections each) and one md truck for an ammo truck. And acquired a section of 155mm off-map artillery.

Needless to say the Soviet aircraft that appeared never got off a shot and I was able to advance behind a rolling mortar barrage (gotta love ammo trucks) whenever I spotted Soviet units. The Soviet mortars were less then thrilled to be on the receiving end of 155s.

Post scenario #2 points were a LOT less available so a 5th 105mm got traded for another 120mm section.

wulfir August 15th, 2019 12:29 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Well played!

The Flying Red Pest with it's stand off attack ability can put some hurt on those Centurions, it it gets the chance, that is. :)

Suhiir August 15th, 2019 02:53 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Many years ago a wise old Sgt told me: "If you're ever in a fair fight you're doing something wrong."

I've passed it along, and I suspect it originated with some Roman Centurion, if not earlier.

wulfir August 15th, 2019 03:58 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 845893)
Many years ago a wise old Sgt told me: "If you're ever in a fair fight you're doing something wrong."

Indeed! ;)

When/if you finish the next one I'd be interested in knowing how the AI behaves.

Suhiir August 15th, 2019 04:59 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
#3?

If you're referring to the Polish reinforcements, in particular certain vehicles. I suspect they did exactly what you wanted them to.

On #4 now. Sure is nice to have some better tanks!

RetLT August 22nd, 2019 04:32 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Fun campaign. I noticed a few problems with the text however.

The 1k build points arrive at the start of the 2nd scenario but the text does not match this. The text at the start of the 2nd says they did not arrive and the text of the 3rd says they have.

In the 3rd scenario the amphib force goes after the gun batteries rather than the v hexes.

In the last scenario the text says you have air support but none is given. There are 20 strikes available but there are no support points to purchase them. They are not really needed anyway.

Also in the last scenario the defenders leave their positions and advance from the start. They should stay put longer.

wulfir August 23rd, 2019 01:06 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
I'll have to do some editing. Hmmm...

I too had the ai go for the gun bty. Not sure why that happens.

Did you soldier on with the fixed core or exchanged stuff?

Suhiir August 23rd, 2019 02:34 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfir (Post 845947)
I too had the ai go for the gun bty. Not sure why that happens.

I didn't want to say this before because it's a spoiler, but they crossed the lake heading for where the gun battery was initially deployed for me as well (I'd moved it).

At a guess you probably have them pathed to go around the south side of the lake BUT remember they use 3 plot points a turn even when they're off map. So by the time they enter as reinforcements their targeted plot point is probably across the lake and going across is faster then going around.

For my scenarios I stack plot points equal to (the turn they arrive x3)+1 on the hex adjacent to their arrival location, and they seem to pretty much do what I want.

RetLT August 23rd, 2019 07:10 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfir (Post 845947)
I'll have to do some editing. Hmmm...


Did you soldier on with the fixed core or exchanged stuff?

I sold back the infantry sams, the 40mm AA guns, the RRs, the jeeps and the trucks. I kept the rest of the tanks, artillery and infantry.

With the rebuild points and the exchanged points I added 2 Hawk Sams, 4 ammo dumps, and 2 recon tanks with night vision. I also added some M113s as ATGM bait but sold them back after they were destroyed.

wulfir August 25th, 2019 01:04 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Ok, I poked around some.

The missing strike elements did not have AUX status, so no wonder they failed to show up.

Text errors were caused by me adding a skirmish scenario at the start and not updating the text files properly. At first I wanted to warp in a 1950s rifle company because one of my sources said the Danes had one company (the 6th) of the particulary unit portrayed in the campaign, equipped with WW2 era weapons. I thought it added variation, but did not like how it turned out. An error occured with the company structure of the Danish core that I couldn't get rid of, even after re-buying the entire Danish force. Decided to go KISS and bought standard 1980s companies and making the trouble scenario number 01 instead of 00 in the campagin...

For the final battle there is about a battalion's worth of infantry meant to go forward from the get go, while much of the other Polish forces were meant to stay put for quite some time.

wulfir August 25th, 2019 01:13 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 845948)
At a guess you probably have them pathed to go around the south side of the lake BUT remember they use 3 plot points a turn even when they're off map. So by the time they enter as reinforcements their targeted plot point is probably across the lake and going across is faster then going around.

I wanted them to hit the upper Victory Hex and continue south. I assumed in most cases they would be obliterated by the player in a fight for that upper VH. They did not have targets to go for the 155mm battery.

When I played it the bulk of the Polish naval infantry managed to reach the VH where they were beaten back. At the end I noticed some of the units, inlcuding all the PT-76 tanks had skirted the fight around the VH and made it across the lake, but not far enough to make it to the 155s...

Steves308 August 27th, 2019 04:48 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Wulfir, are you going to upload the campaign with the fixes you made?

Steve

wulfir August 28th, 2019 01:33 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steves308 (Post 845972)
Wulfir, are you going to upload the campaign with the fixes you made?

Yep, you bet. Will take me a few days more though...

shahadi November 8th, 2019 10:06 AM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
I am pleased to report we're having a really good time putting a beat down on the enemy with three decisive victories.

Regarding the FREDENSBORG battle, I was only allotted 1 build point, although the briefing says 1000 would be available to bolster the force. Am I missing something?

Upon examing the map, the intel regarding LOENHOLT seems sketchy as there are no river crossings east of the village that I could exploit to run havoc in the rear of FREDENSBORG.

<br>

shahadi November 10th, 2019 06:29 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfir (Post 845958)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 845948)
At a guess you probably have them pathed to go around the south side of the lake BUT remember they use 3 plot points a turn even when they're off map. So by the time they enter as reinforcements their targeted plot point is probably across the lake and going across is faster then going around.

I wanted them to hit the upper Victory Hex and continue south. I assumed in most cases they would be obliterated by the player in a fight for that upper VH. They did not have targets to go for the 155mm battery.

When I played it the bulk of the Polish naval infantry managed to reach the VH where they were beaten back. At the end I noticed some of the units, inlcuding all the PT-76 tanks had skirted the fight around the VH and made it across the lake, but not far enough to make it to the 155s...


I spotted at least, 2 TOPAS-2AP and 3 PT-76Bs at Naebbet with two 2 PT-76s landing in Noedebo at Hex (43,18). I loaded my engineers in two trucks heading north to Noedebo.

The engineers defeated a PT-76 and her section of infantry at Hex (40,69) preventing the enemy from engaging at Hex (70,65) or at Groenholt station (66,92).

I detached two Centurions from U0 company at Hex (70,65) to support the engineers in their new task to protect the 155s.

Several fights ensued resulting in destruction of the enemy at Noedebo.

They crossed the lake.
<br>

shahadi November 21st, 2019 04:09 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
3 Attachment(s)
Humlebaek Counterattack, Kvistgaard

Although the Danish force is augmented with a platoon of Jaegers, an additional company of heavy infantry, and a flight of F-104Gs, the promised USMC MEU-Ground Element is non-existent. Given the language in the scen text, I expected the Marine battalion to arrive as a reinforcement.

The battle at Fredensborg was fierce costing heavy casualties to one infantry company in particular due to a devastating rocket barrage. As is common in Urban Operations Danish losses extended to her scouts and tanks. As a result, I suggest adding about 1200 support points to replenish her core.

Fredensborg Battle Report


<br>

Thanks wulfir!
<br>

wulfir November 26th, 2019 12:58 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
1 Attachment(s)
Updated version of campaign 020. Should include fixes for the problems mentioned in this thread.

shahadi November 27th, 2019 02:06 AM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfir (Post 846327)
Updated version of campaign 020. Should include fixes for the problems mentioned in this thread.

I fired up the fix patch to discover that the KVISTGAARD battle scen text states the following: (1)You still have access to the 155mm guns, (2) A platoon worth of Jaegers, (3) one fresh HV Company has been pulled out of the line and redirected to beef up your force, and (4) Some tactical air is also en route. These units appear in the battle.

Now, although the scen text has the following language, "It is all we can do for now," the next paragraph reads that a battalion size force is being transported in your direction right now." I understood this to mean that the marines would appear in the battle as a reinforcement, similar to the F-104G's. If the marines are not to appear, this is a big tease. :)
<br>

wulfir November 27th, 2019 01:50 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shahadi (Post 846330)

If the marines are not to appear, this is a big tease. :)
<br>

I see your point. And the Marines show up for the final battle only...:o

I intended it as a hint that they will be arriving soon.


..... scen 004 KVISTGAARD takes place Aug 22, 1985 - morning

aaand scen 005 HUMLEBAEK takes place Aug 22, 1985 - afternoon

shahadi December 2nd, 2019 11:54 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
3 Attachment(s)
KVISTGAARD Battle Summary

The KVISTGAARD battle has a few twists and one big surprise. Overall, I earned a marginal victory although all the objectives were captured, KVISTGAARD was a brutal fight.




KVISTGAARD Battle Result




HUMLEBAEK Campaign Summary




Regarding the ESPERGARDE battle, the scen text has the following wording: "Heavy air support will compensate your lack of major artillery assets." However, as there is no air support listed in the roster, how much air support and of what assets are planned for this battle? We can edit the campaign to add support points to purchase the air. Please advise.

Thanks wulfir for another entertaining scenario.
<br>

wulfir December 7th, 2019 05:08 AM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shahadi (Post 846355)
However, as there is no air support listed in the roster, how much air support and of what assets are planned for this battle?

Danish air force:

F-16B strike element (Maverick)
F-16B strike element (Maverick)

CF-104G strike element (unguided rockets)
CF-104G strike element (unguided rockets)
CF-104G strike element (unguided rockets)

USMC:

EA-6B Intruder strike element (SEAD)

A-6E Intruder (Paveway)

A-6E Intruder (Snakeye/Napalm)
A-6E Intruder (Snakeye/Napalm)

UAV (one single unit)

shahadi December 7th, 2019 03:53 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
It was the Donald Rumsfeld, SecDef under George Bush who said, "You go to war with the army you have..."

I am currently at turn 15 with no air. My marines are without close support tanks, my mech inf company without sp mortars, gun apc, or jeep rcls; and about a third of my core is supressed (60 repair points not enough). Well, I am moving my formations through forrest as they approach their objectives. The Polish artillery and her rockets are devasting; therefore, I direct all artillery to any tell-tale smoke. I am moving one AA gun with the marines.

Although we have captured the harbor at NIVA using remnants of my core, the objective at KROGERUP with a marine company, we are delepting ammo at an alarming rate, especially the AT weapons, SMAWS, Dragons, and TOWs. Eighty turns is a long way to go without ammo.

The strategy is to take the harbors, get in behind the enemy positions before moving into the cities.

I am not sure of the effectiveness of UAVs in 1985, I'd rather have a squadron of Cobras.

Still, even with my belly aching, this is an entertaining campaign.
<br>

RetLT December 10th, 2019 01:51 AM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
There is still an issue with the text not matching up to the build points.

The player receives 1000 points prior to the start of the 2nd scenario (Neodebo) but the text does not mention them.

The text prior to the start of Scn 4 (Fredensburg) says that you get 1000 build points but really you only get 20.

wulfir December 10th, 2019 01:18 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
1 Attachment(s)
Version 3.

Includes more detailed mentions of the amount of Build Points in the txt intros along with about 1000 build points coming in at both Node 001 Noedebo and 003 Fredensborg.

shahadi December 10th, 2019 08:24 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
3 Attachment(s)
ESPERGAERDE Battle Summary


An astounding scenario played against an aggressive AI. This is a long scenario requiring the player to manage ammo loads especially with AT, sniper, and close tank units (No ammo reloads available.) My general plan was to avoid enemy contact on the way to attack the harbors of NIVA Haven, HUMLEBAEK Haven, and ESPERGAERDE Haven. Each unit attained their primary objectives:
  1. Mech Inf Co to attack and secure ESPERGAERDE HAVEN.
  2. USMC Btn to secure HUMLEBAEK Haven.
  3. Infantry Grp Co to secure NIVA Haven.
  4. HVY Inf Grp Co to secure NIVA Haven then proceed north to secure 2 HUMLEBAEK Haven VF objectives.

ESPERGAERDE Battle Report

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1576022528


ESPERGAERDE Battle Summary

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1576022528

HUMLEBAEK Campaign Summary

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1576022528


As shown in the above, I scored a decisive victory for the HUMLEBAEK campaign.

Although I refuse to post a spoiler, please take note this campaign is described as a counterattack. Also, I played the campaign prior to the release of the third version.

My congrats to wulfir!

<br>

Roman December 11th, 2019 01:28 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfir (Post 846327)
Updated version of campaign 020. Should include fixes for the problems mentioned in this thread.

corrupted file

shahadi December 11th, 2019 03:59 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
There is an additional observation I need to share. Some units securing a VF hex should have a reaction turn value of 98 so that they won't leave their post chasing to retake a captured VF. It is a balancing act, how many units to "counterattack" and which units to stay in place.

<br>

wulfir December 13th, 2019 02:14 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shahadi (Post 846395)
Some units securing a VF hex should have a reaction turn value of 98 so that they won't leave their post chasing to retake a captured VF.

This is good advice. Worth to highlight! :up:

DRG December 13th, 2019 04:58 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
If you want to be creative you could set the X0 units to 98 and the non-command (grunt) units to 99. That would depend on how far back from the V-Hex's you have them placed

Aeraaa December 13th, 2019 08:20 PM

Re: Humlebaek Counterattack 1985
 
I'm waiting for X-mas where I'll have some time off, then I can try the campaign myself. :)


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