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-   -   Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41322)

Marek_Tucan November 20th, 2008 03:43 PM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
A lot can be simulated in human-to-human game, by "house rules". For example that "one target per FO" rule and so on.

Weasel November 20th, 2008 06:51 PM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
We are discussing this at THE BLITZ currently too. The FOO restriction rule (attached) was created by Vesku, Walrus and myself, and play tested with about 10 players to try and come up with a system that does away with the single purchased FOO calling in single arty tubes onto 50 different hexes at the same time.

Give it a gander.

RERomine November 20th, 2008 07:00 PM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasel (Post 654488)
We are discussing this at THE BLITZ currently too. The FOO restriction rule (attached) was created by Vesku, Walrus and myself, and play tested with about 10 players to try and come up with a system that does away with the single purchased FOO calling in single arty tubes onto 50 different hexes at the same time.

Give it a gander.

I'll check it out because I'm full of opinions and probably some other stuff as well :D

Marek_Tucan November 21st, 2008 04:35 AM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
The rule sounds good and may allow for further breakdown say by unit types or by country - say US infantry Coy commander may call in artillery (albeit limited - say only "his Bn" mortars, only onboard or only one bty of offboard. Russian inf. coy commander may only command mortars directly attached to his company. Or to neighboring coys... Actually pretty interesting topic. Lets brainstorm ;)

So... for example:

1) artillery/mortars assigned to "hq company" (ie subordinates of A0) may be called in only by units with FO authorities. Alternatively, "proper" artillery just by FO's, mortars also bz co. commanders.
2) Mortars (50-82mm) and inf guns may be attached to individual companies. Depending on army comm situation, only the given Co. commander or (if comms are better) also commanders of neighboring Coys may call them in.
3) Mortars directly attached to Coys are inaccessible for FO's, but accessible for A0.
4) in better comm armies (now that's more in the MBT era) the authority over arty may shift one level down, so for example in Fulda Gap 1980, Plt. leader may call in company mortars and coy leader may call in offboard arty.
5) (again modern) GPS-equipped FO's can call in arty at two targets at once (maybe only if calling in "modern" guns? IE if you say buy GPS FO and Allied/Captured ZIS-3 76mm battery, you cannot, if it is a MSTA-B battery, you can?)

What think ye about such an amendment?

chuckfourth November 21st, 2008 06:56 AM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
Hi
There is a simple change that will make the artillery routines much more realistic. Remove the little blue "incrementing" cross from the bombard screen.

For targets in LOS the blue cross is redundant anyway. The shells will still land on the target hex.
As a bonus removing the blue cross also removes several cheats.
Most important being walking shells onto an unseen target(those gamey smoke signatures). But also keeping an artillery stike (or para drop, or bomber strike) "floating" in the air untill needed, and so avoiding the "wait" time.
Best Regards Chuck.

Marek_Tucan November 21st, 2008 09:58 AM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
For targets in direct LOS it is redundant if the target is stationary. Simple solution: don't use it. But I would not like to be denied the option to shift fire with the advance of my infantry.

As for floating strike or smoke counterbattery, again, simple solution. Do not use it and play with players who doesn't use it as well.

Cross November 21st, 2008 10:20 AM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
What's wrong with a 'floating artillery strike'? I've used this practice and have assumed it was realistic.

Surely a FOO may plan for a future strike at a specific place, and make sure his guns are sighted in before hand...just waiting for the order to fire.

You have already paid the price of delay, which I assume includes a couple of ranging shots that aren't seen in the game.

You are also taking a risk, as your guns have been committed to shoot at a target location where the enemy haven't even arrived yet.

Mobhack November 21st, 2008 10:50 AM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross (Post 654611)
What's wrong with a 'floating artillery strike'? I've used this practice and have assumed it was realistic.

Surely a FOO may plan for a future strike at a specific place, and make sure his guns are sighted in before hand...just waiting for the order to fire.

You have already paid the price of delay, which I assume includes a couple of ranging shots that aren't seen in the game.

You are also taking a risk, as your guns have been committed to shoot at a target location where the enemy haven't even arrived yet.

You are entirely correct, it is the SP way of simulating
- A silent barrage or
- Time On Target arty

That just one of this forum's resident troll's little pet foibles. Chuckforth has been told what it is before but keeps whining on about it. Ignore him.

Cheers
Andy

Weasel November 21st, 2008 02:40 PM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marek_Tucan (Post 654567)
The rule sounds good and may allow for further breakdown say by unit types or by country - say US infantry Coy commander may call in artillery (albeit limited - say only "his Bn" mortars, only onboard or only one bty of offboard. Russian inf. coy commander may only command mortars directly attached to his company. Or to neighboring coys... Actually pretty interesting topic. Lets brainstorm ;)

So... for example:

1) artillery/mortars assigned to "hq company" (ie subordinates of A0) may be called in only by units with FO authorities. Alternatively, "proper" artillery just by FO's, mortars also bz co. commanders.
2) Mortars (50-82mm) and inf guns may be attached to individual companies. Depending on army comm situation, only the given Co. commander or (if comms are better) also commanders of neighboring Coys may call them in.
3) Mortars directly attached to Coys are inaccessible for FO's, but accessible for A0.
4) in better comm armies (now that's more in the MBT era) the authority over arty may shift one level down, so for example in Fulda Gap 1980, Plt. leader may call in company mortars and coy leader may call in offboard arty.
5) (again modern) GPS-equipped FO's can call in arty at two targets at once (maybe only if calling in "modern" guns? IE if you say buy GPS FO and Allied/Captured ZIS-3 76mm battery, you cannot, if it is a MSTA-B battery, you can?)

What think ye about such an amendment?

:) I think 90% of the people who read the FOO rule ask this. When play tested we determined that it didn't work for several reasons:

1. Too hard to police. Although most players are stand up fellows we all know of those who fudge their games. It would be too simple to use the FOO to plot the mortars for the reduced time, and then say the Coy CO did it.

2. Too hard to determine the number of shoots. The player has 2 FOOs but 5 shoots going on, which are from the FOO and which are from the Coy CO.

The rule must be as simple as possible.

We also created a buying guide that forces players to buy realistically instead of hordes of snipers and AT teams running around the map. It has been dumbed down also, yet players are still confused by it. Because we cannot make it more simple very few players use it; yet once you try it a few times it is quite easy.

Cheers.

Weasel November 21st, 2008 02:42 PM

Re: Realistic Artillery Management by a FOO
 
BTW - the one big rule we have at THE BLITZ is that players can use any rules they like, as long as both players agree before game start. So if you found someone who was willing to try your modifications then it would be good to go. Otherwise, if it was agreed to just use the FOO rule, then the above attachment would be in effect.


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