Modder's Toolkit?
 

For me and, I am sure, many others two of the things that make this game so great are the unceasing efforts of the developers to improve and add to the game and the ability to change so much ourselves.
Occasionally these can work against each other... This is a kind of "Tweaker's wishlist" or "Modder's toolkit" if you will.

I would like to
a). propose some changes/additions to the game to help modders and players "tweak" their game experience
and
b). ask for a couple of considerations when the developers are updating the game to accommodate those of us that play with "non-vanilla" versions.

Game changes:
(I have no idea how possible some of these are and am happy to accept that they may be unfeasible with the current game engine - but hey its a wish list!)

a1 - Ability to manually set the "base" xp/morale for an OoB. My understanding is that this is currently hard coded for each OoB for each year.
would it be possible to allow us to change/enter this information for the OoB OR for a battle? either by entering a actual value or global modifier?
Alternatively would it be possible for the formation experience and morale modifiers to have an increased range? (ie greater than +/- 25?)

a2 - The ability to set which "infantry colour" the OoB uses (again currently hard coded?)

a3 - allow "air" units in the core units of a campaign?
The argument that it doesn't happen in reality could be applied to helos (which can be included) and I think there are cases where it DOES happen in reality
(eg all elements from an amphibious warfare vessel going through a campaign together)

Quality of life considerations
(I understand this isn't possible indefinitely but I believe there is still a certain amount of "wiggle room".)

b1 - An undertaking that the game will not utilise certain .shp files.
eg. that one of each of a turreted, non-turreted and invisible turreted file be set aside for no official new icons.
In order that modders don't have to recreate new .shp files and renumber icons every time a new version is released.
(Perhaps Icon0180.shp, Icon0184.shp, and Icon0189.shp for instance?)

b2 - An undertaking to leave a "block of slots" available for pictures.
ie a range, say between 10100 and 10999 where no new .lbms will be added till other slots used?


I would welcome other peoples thoughts and ideas... What's on your wish list?

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

For a battle could you not just turn off training & set it in preferences

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

As I understand it this would also take no account of formation modifiers, so your guards, sf, paras, whatever will be same as your line troops - unless of course I am wrong (which is not beyond the bounds of possibility... )

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

You can change individual unit exp, morale etc with scenhack easily enough as well as individual leaders

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Whilst I appreciate the extra icons, terrain etc that the new patch has come with - it has exacerbated the problems faced by modders in organising their own custom icons, etc.

Could I once again please ask that:
b1 - An undertaking that the game will not utilise certain .shp files.
eg. that one of each of a turreted, non-turreted and invisible turreted file be set aside for no official new icons.
In order that modders don't have to recreate new .shp files and renumber icons every time a new version is released.
(Perhaps Icon0180.shp, Icon0184.shp, and Icon0189.shp for instance?)

b2 - An undertaking to leave a "block of slots" available for pictures.
ie a range, say between 10100 and 10999 where no new .lbms will be added till other slots used?

Whilst I realise and appreciate that the modding community should never be the focus of any changes and that there are finite hard limits, surely in the short term this shouldn't be too hard?

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

:down:"Timing is everything" and you really picked the WRONG time to ask me this.....again

What you are asking me to do, among other things, is turn over control of my last remaining unused invisible turreted file to "modders" and reduce my "stock" of available hull only files by 33% leaving me with no empty invisible turreted files and only two hull only files and those files you want me to turn over could likely last the OFFICAL game until development ends permanently

Seriously ? Seriously !

I do have an overabundance of empty turreted Icon files and I had considered that if someday I feel like tackling this I might convert some to IT and H files...maybe. It's not like it's a five-minute job. The thing is......all of you asking for more room for your personal creations KNEW from the start you were using official game files for your work and the ONLY reason you even knew they existed if because *I* did the work of assembling a list. I didn't do that for modders..... I did that for the main game. A land use analogy would be that the squatters have buildt their homes now they want me to build a road and dig their wells :rolleyes: . My main concern is the two official games and right now I have enough files to last me until we are fed up doing this any longer but maybe in a month or two I might "feel the love" and see what can be done but don't hold your breath...I'm not feeling it ATM

I will, however, reserve PM22000.lbm to PM22999.lbm for modder use in winSPMBT only....unless I forget but there's a good chance I won't ...maybe

Don

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Thanks!

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

That's far enough away from where I normally enter runs of PIC's so you should be safe

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

As the only active "large scale" modder in the WinMBT community at this time (Plasmakrab's project "Cold War 2020" is no longer being developed and a number of the other additional content providers have also ceased their activities), I can say that any accommodation on the part of the developer's is always very greatly appreciated.

After all, not every developer offers practical tools like the shape editor and the MobHack utility (or indeed the many other useful tools, ideal for this sort of work) as standard.

Of course, I don't believe it should be a "one way street". I've always been happy to make useful mod content available for the actual game itself. It is a policy outlined in the mod's readme.

I think the idea of converting some of the existing empty (and likely never to be filled) shape files for turreted vehicles into "tl" and "it" types is a capital idea, btw.

Saves having to code in new ones from scratch, which is a complicated process. I've looked at elements of the game's code myself - with a Hex editor - and I'm amazed that DRG and Andy can make heads or tails of it.

I can't.

Then again, I am computer illiterate :o.

The "Master Icon List" was indeed quite useful.

Although, in the beginning (2006 or thereabouts was when I started tinkering about), I figured a fair bit out on my own through trial and error.

Making your own .lbms, .wavs and using hexadecimal editors to change national names etc. can be a trial and error process for the uninitiated and computer illiterate.

I've learnt a lot.

I do hope you will, eventually, "feel the love".

Who knows, maybe a couple more "squatters" might crop up. I've even heard tell - somewhere - that it can be a net positive for a game to have an active community of modders.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Thank You! :D

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

I am playing Steel Panthers since release, got countless hours of fun with SPMBT and SPWW2 since Version 1. Matrix version was quite fun too. (i liked the way commando troops enter the battlefield.) But personally i do not give a dime about active modding communitys for SPMBT or SPWW2, they are gone in 9 month eventually, leaving us with some Tigers in yellow stripes. I hope this don't offends, sorry for my miserable english. Maybe i did not understand well enough. To be honest i would also bee happy to have air units in my core campaign again. I'm missing these, but in my opinion a CD extended feature in "preferences screen" or game.ini would be better than a Hex-workaround of a modding group. I got a much better thing than active modders, i got a Developer who gave me permanent updates and good features. No Sir, i dont need no modded content, no 300 extra sound files or troop colors either.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Ja ... da hat einer eindeutig was missverstanden, aber so was von. Es geht ja nicht darum, dass die Modder eine Lösung dieser Probleme selber deichseln sondern, dass die Entwickler vielleicht einiges noch in Angriff nehmen bei der nächstbesten Gelegenheit.

U.A. Platz für Icons der Modder zu schaffen, da einige Mods durchaus Platz benötigen (z.B. Vietnam Mod, Cold War 2020 oder eben Das Reich) und nicht alles was die Modder leisten für die Katz ist (z.B. bessere Sounds, ganze Reihen von Icons usw. usf., die ja auch dann im Vanilla Spiel Verwendung fanden).

Sinn und Zweck der Mods ist es nicht die Arbeit der Entwickler fortzuführen sondern neue Wege zu gehen.

Schöpferisch tätig zu sein, heißt es :cool:.

Ich arbeite kontinuierlich an meinem Projekt, "Das Reich", seit einem Jahrzehnt mittlerweile und daher finde ich die folgende Bemerkung echt ein bisschen weithergeholt:

Zum Glück werden Sie weder gezwungen, die Mods zu verwenden noch werden wir - die Modder - gezwungen unsere Arbeit einzustellen, weil alle derselben Meinung sind wie Sie.

Fazit:

lurk moar, wie die 4Channer so gerne sagen.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

You are quite right it IS wonderful to have such dedicated and active developers - something we are ALL grateful for!

However, I think you misunderstand how committed some of the modders are. Some spend years carefully crafting full mods (ie Das Reich, Vietnam, ACW, 2020, etc), for others its an icon here or there, a small Quality-of-life change (ie small id flags, VP roundels, sounds, etc). No one is trying to re-imagine the game - just add a few OPTIONAL garnishes or ALTERNATE takes to ENHANCE your gaming experience.

The point of this thread is NOT to "take control" or "force changes" to the game but to allow a small corner of the garden in which we can plant our own seeds - for the enjoyment of ourselves and (we hope) others.

If you don't like a mod don't use it! No one is asking that you use anything - we just try and add to the experience.

Two of the reasons for this great game's longevity are its fantastic dedicated developers (who, by the way, started this as a mod...) and the ability of all users to tweak and change stuff to their personal preferences (The game ships with a .shp file editor, scenario, campaign and OoB editors after all)!

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

RecruitMonty has pointed out to me that I actually interpret some wrong. That he himself has been working on his mod "Das Reich" for 10 years already, and my general comment on Modders ... I do not know the word in English. It was beside it. Is injurious.

These are good points which I can think about. What I can say right now is that it is not my intention to make modders look in a way unnecessary. It is great that there are modders who love what they do. They created great. I did not want to bother anyone. Sorry if i did it to you Recruit Monty. The desire of the modder, to have more possibilities, is a perspicuous reason.

Lurk Moar:
I got involved in this conversation because i look at it from a somewhat frightened view. What about those, who gave me a great game many years ago? They still have to jump? Let me calculate: Any questions I ask in this forum, no matter how ignorant they might be (because of not reading the manual), are not only answered by experienced players like you. Those are also the developers with the most competent answers. So I buy the game for 30 doubles. then I let the developers look for my needs around the clock in this forum. After some time, i think: "Hey wouldn't it be great if the smoke is a little more hazy? Let's make a mod of my own." I should immediately ask in the forum how I do it best. The developers have a sense. 10 hours of question and answer later I can get started and the mod is getting bigger with the years. But these "brothers" do not want to sacrifice more time in creating space for my icons. The place i am in need of. What you do is your affair, Whether the developer donate you time is their. I just wanted to say: you all do, but you don't do it for me.

Maximus Autismus

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Ich denke Sie haben es geschnallt.

Ich hatte schon verstanden was Sie zum Ausdruck bringen wollten. Lag wohl am Google-Übersetzter, dass es so bescheiden rüber kam.

Was die Mods anbelangt; klar kann man fragen wie die eine oder andere Sache halt funktioniert oder überhaupt zu bewerkstelligen sei, aber bei manchen Sachen muss man eben selber auf Entdeckungsreise gehen.

Beharrlichkeit führt dann am sichersten zum Ziel.

Machen Sie sich doch keinen Kopf, darüber, ob die Entwickler nicht mehr genug Platz für ihre eigenen Sachen hätten, wenn sie uns Modder einen Gefallen täten.

Schließlich war ihr Projekt am Anfang auch ein Mod.

Die haben eine enorme Leistung vollbracht und können immer noch Dateien herzaubern aus dem Nichts.

Vor einigen Jahren wurde es einmal zu knapp und "poof" da waren auf einmal wieder jede Menge jungfräuliche .shp Ordner. Hat natürlich viel Zeit in Anspruch genommen sie zu programmieren - ist ja klar - aber möglich war es.

Also, gut ist.

:)

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

As of right now this change is in effect for winSPMBT only

// Icon0180.shp - T---------- MODDERS RESERVED
{18000, 18001},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7548.
{18002, 18003},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7549.
{18004, 18005},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7550.
{18006, 18007},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7551.
{18008, 18009},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7552.
{18010, 18011},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7553.
{18012, 18013},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7554.
{18014, 18015},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7555.
{18016, 18017},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7556.
{18018, 18019},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7557.
{18020, 18021},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7558.
{18022, 18023},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7559.
{18024, 18025},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7560.
{18026, 18027},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7561.
{18028, 18029},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7562.
{18030, 18031},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7563.
{18032, 18033},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7564.
{18034, 18035},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7565.
{18036, 18037},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7566.
{18038, 18039},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7567.
{18040, 18041},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7568.
{18042, 18043},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7569.
{18044, 18045},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7570.
{18046, 18047},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7573.
{18048, 18049},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7574.
{18050, 18051},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7573.
{18052, 18053},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7574.
{18054, 18055},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7575.
{18056, 18057},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7576.
{18058, 18059},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7577.
{18060, 18061},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7578.
{18062, 18063},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7579.
{18064, 18065},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7580.
{18066, 18067},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7581.
{18068, 18069},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7582.
{18070, 18071},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7583.
{18072, 18073},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7584.
{18074, 18075},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7585.
{18076, 18077},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7586.
{18078, 18079},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7587.
{18080, 18081},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7588.
{18082, 18083},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7589.
{18084, 18085},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7590.
{18086, 18087},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7591.
{18088, 18089},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7592.
{18090, 18091},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7593.
{18092, 18093},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7594.
{18094, 18095},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7595.
{18096, 18097},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7596.
{18098, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7597.

// Icon0181.shp - T---------- MODDERS RESERVED
{18100, 18101},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7598.
{18102, 18103},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7599.
{18104, 18105},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7600.
{18106, 18107},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7601.
{18108, 18109},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7602.
{18110, 18111},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7603.
{18112, 18113},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7604.
{18114, 18115},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7605.
{18116, 18117},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7606.
{18118, 18119},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7607.
{18120, 18121},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7608.
{18122, 18123},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7609.
{18124, 18125},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7610.
{18126, 18127},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7611.
{18128, 18129},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7612.
{18130, 18131},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7613.
{18132, 18133},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7614.
{18134, 18135},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7615.
{18136, 18137},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7616.
{18138, 18139},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7617.
{18140, 18141},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7618.
{18142, 18143},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7619.
{18144, 18145},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7620.
{18146, 18147},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7621.
{18148, 18149},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7622.
{18150, 18151},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7623.
{18152, 18153},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7624.
{18154, 18155},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7625.
{18156, 18157},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7626.
{18158, 18159},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7627.
{18160, 18161},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7628.
{18162, 18163},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7629.
{18164, 18165},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7630.
{18166, 18167},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7631.
{18168, 18169},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7632.
{18170, 18171},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7633.
{18172, 18173},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7634.
{18174, 18175},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7635.
{18176, 18177},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7636.
{18178, 18179},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7637.
{18182, 18181},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7638.
{18182, 18183},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7639.
{18184, 18185},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7640.
{18186, 18187},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7641.
{18188, 18189},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7642.
{18190, 18191},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7643.
{18192, 18193},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7644.
{18194, 18195},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7645.
{18196, 18197},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7646.
{18198, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7647.

// Icon0182.shp - T---------- MODDERS RESERVED
{18200, 18201},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7648.
{18202, 18203},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7649.
{18204, 18205},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7650.
{18206, 18207},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7651.
{18208, 18209},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7652.
{18210, 18211},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7653.
{18212, 18213},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7654.
{18214, 18215},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7655.
{18216, 18217},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7656.
{18218, 18219},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7657.
{18220, 18221},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7658.
{18222, 18223},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7659.
{18224, 18225},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7660.
{18226, 18227},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7661.
{18228, 18229},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7662.
{18230, 18231},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7663.
{18232, 18233},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7664.
{18234, 18235},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7665.
{18236, 18237},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7666.
{18238, 18239},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7667.
{18240, 18241},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7668.
{18242, 18243},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7669.
{18244, 18245},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7670.
{18246, 18247},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7673.
{18248, 18249},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7674.
{18250, 18251},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7673.
{18252, 18253},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7674.
{18254, 18255},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7675.
{18256, 18257},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7676.
{18258, 18259},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7677.
{18260, 18261},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7678.
{18262, 18263},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7679.
{18264, 18265},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7680.
{18266, 18267},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7681.
{18268, 18269},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7682.
{18270, 18271},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7683.
{18272, 18273},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7684.
{18274, 18275},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7685.
{18276, 18277},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7686.
{18278, 18279},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7687.
{18280, 18281},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7688.
{18282, 18283},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7689.
{18284, 18285},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7690.
{18286, 18287},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7691.
{18288, 18289},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7692.
{18290, 18291},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7693.
{18292, 18293},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7694.
{18294, 18295},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7695.
{18296, 18297},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7696.
{18298, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //7697.

// Icon0184.shp - I -- Invisible turrets for Icons with AAMG's on non turreted vehicles ONLY. -- 98 ICONS PER SHP ---------- MODDERS RESERVED
{18400, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7800
{18401, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7801
{18402, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7802
{18403, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7803
{18404, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7804
{18405, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7805
{18406, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7806
{18407, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7807
{18408, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7808
{18409, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7809
{18410, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7810
{18411, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7811
{18412, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7812
{18413, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7813
{18414, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7814
{18415, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7815
{18416, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7816
{18417, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7817
{18418, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7818
{18419, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7819
{18420, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7820
{18421, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7821
{18422, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7822
{18423, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7823
{18424, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7824
{18425, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7825
{18426, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7826
{18427, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7827
{18428, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7828
{18429, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7829
{18430, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7830
{18431, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7831
{18432, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7832
{18433, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7833
{18434, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7834
{18435, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7835
{18436, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7836
{18437, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7837
{18438, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7838
{18439, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7839
{18440, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7840
{18441, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7841
{18442, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7842
{18443, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7843
{18444, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7844
{18445, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7845
{18446, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7846
{18447, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7847
{18448, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7848
{18449, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7849
{18450, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7850
{18451, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7851
{18452, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7852
{18453, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7853
{18454, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7854
{18455, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7855
{18456, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7856
{18457, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7857
{18458, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7858
{18459, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7859
{18460, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7860
{18461, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7861
{18462, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7862
{18463, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7863
{18464, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7864
{18465, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7865
{18466, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7866
{18467, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7867
{18468, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7868
{18469, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7869
{18470, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7870
{18471, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7871
{18472, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7872
{18473, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7873
{18474, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7874
{18475, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7875
{18476, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7876
{18477, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7877
{18478, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7878
{18479, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7879
{18480, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7880
{18481, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7881
{18482, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7882
{18483, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7883
{18484, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7884
{18485, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7885
{18486, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7886
{18487, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7887
{18488, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7888
{18489, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7889
{18490, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7890
{18491, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7891
{18492, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7892
{18493, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7893
{18494, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7894
{18495, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7895
{18496, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7896
{18497, 6976},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED // 7897

// Icon0187.shp - H -- 98 NON TURRETED ICONS PER SHP ---------- MODDERS RESERVED
{18700, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8100
{18701, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8101
{18702, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8102
{18703, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8103
{18704, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8104
{18705, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8105
{18706, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8106
{18707, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8107
{18708, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8108
{18709, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8109
{18710, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8110
{18711, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8111
{18712, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8112
{18713, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8113
{18714, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8114
{18715, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8115
{18716, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8116
{18717, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8117
{18718, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8118
{18719, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8119
{18720, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8120
{18721, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8121
{18722, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8122
{18723, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8123
{18724, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8124
{18725, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8125
{18726, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8126
{18727, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8127
{18728, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8128
{18729, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8129
{18730, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8130
{18731, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8131
{18732, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8132
{18733, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8133
{18734, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8134
{18735, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8135
{18736, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8136
{18737, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8137
{18738, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8138
{18739, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8139
{18740, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8140
{18741, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8141
{18742, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8142
{18743, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8143
{18744, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8144
{18745, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8145
{18746, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8146
{18747, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8147
{18748, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8148
{18749, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8149
{18750, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8150
{18751, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8151
{18752, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8152
{18753, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8153
{18754, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8154
{18755, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8155
{18756, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8156
{18757, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8157
{18758, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8158
{18759, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8159
{18760, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8160
{18761, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8161
{18762, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8162
{18763, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8163
{18764, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8164
{18765, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8165
{18766, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8166
{18767, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8167
{18768, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8168
{18769, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8169
{18770, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8170
{18771, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8171
{18772, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8172
{18773, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8173
{18774, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8174
{18775, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8175
{18776, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8176
{18777, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8177
{18778, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8178
{18779, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8179
{18780, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8180
{18781, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8181
{18782, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8182
{18783, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8183
{18784, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8184
{18785, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8185
{18786, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8186
{18787, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8187
{18788, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8188
{18789, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8189
{18790, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8190
{18791, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8191
{18792, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8192
{18793, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8193
{18794, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8194
{18795, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8195
{18796, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8196
{18797, -1},//---------- MODDERS RESERVED //8197

PM22000.lbm to PM22999.lbm for modder use

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Woot TY!

:you:

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Thanks DRG!

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Here's a Modding chart for the WinSPBMT Modder's Icons/LBMs attached to this in Microsoft Excel 97-2003 zipped up.

Random statistics from within Excel:

150 Turreted Icons (Tanks, Helicopters? etc)
98 Invisible Turreted Icons (for AAMG on Non Turreted Vehicles ONLY)
98 Non Turreted Icons (Planes, Assault Guns etc)
1,000 LBMs

To put this in some context; by my rough calculations/estimates:

50 "Full" (Winter/Desert/Normal) Turreted AFV Icons

32 "Full" (Winter/Desert/Normal) Invisible AAMG Turreted AFV Icons

16 "Full" (Winter/Desert/Normal) Turretless Vehicle Icons.
+
50 "Single" Turretless Vehicle Icons.

This is enough to essentially, basically equip an entire National OBAT for a good period of time, especially if the nation doesn't fight in an extreme terrain (Desert or Winter).

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Looks great Mark. Thank you!

Has anyone done an Excel sheet of the entire Icon list yet like that Mark, nice, clean, and organized?

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Not yet...

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Ok, I have started working on that but it's miles and miles from being done.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Gee Joe.......so sorry you don't like my lists but I didn't make them for you I made them for my use and for my use they work just fine as I have far better things to do than make nice neat lists for people to admire.

But if you have nothing better to do then have fun

Be happy you don't have to figure out where everything is like I did 20 years ago which is EXACTLY what you would be doing without the list that's in there now.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

I can make specialist sheets like that; but only for specific nationalities.

Reason for this is I don't have time to constantly update the sheet with each release.

One thing I can do is the icon list for German units, to help support Das Reich; because it's such a big sprawling mod; and because it's a Total Conversion.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

The thoughts behind this, is once it's converted to Excel, Don and Andy will use it from then on. It will make navigation of the lists much easier for everyone. So no need for the community to update it. This is a taking one for the team and community.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

I don't NEED an "easier list to navigate".... I can find my way around this one and get any info I need in an instant and I don't need to wonder if some "helpful soul" made an error transposing data while making it "pretty"....so quit fooling yourself that this is something Andy and I would use because I won't and he never does........ I have NO difficulty find what I want with the existing list and I've been happily using it for 20 years.....if YOU have a problem with it it's YOUR problem, not mine.

And lose the nonsense attitude that you are "taking one for the team and community." good grief.........

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Here's a early incomplete version for MBT in Excel 97-2003 format.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Sorry you feel that way Don.

It's not about making it "pretty", never has been, it's about function. Using the search tool, is a huge benefit. That alone is my motivation for making the .txt file an Excel file.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

I load the official Icon lists with a text editor that has an excellent search feature and I've been using that to find whatever I need for nearly 2 decades. if you cannot "find" what you are looking for on the official Icon list you need to use a better text editor. It's not about Function......it's about the tools you use and if you don't use the correct tools you cannot function so what you propose is a considerable number of man-hours work because you are using tools that are not fully functional. The one I use IS so I don't need a redundant Excel version. Would you use MS paint to build an Icon??

For example, I can tell you in under 1 second that in WW2 there are 29 Icons with "panther" as part of their description in the 9069 Icon slots now available to me.... And one click on the search result list brings me to the one I want .....how would Excel do that any better ?? It won't which is why redoing the list in Excel is a complete waste of time and why I never bothered to do so.

Don

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

A complete waste of time but have fun anyway

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

That would be capital!

Thanks for the offer.

I see the forum seems once again to be computer-aids free. Kudos to whoever fixed that :up: .

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

As someone who uses the shape editor quite a bit I'm inclined to commend Mr. Oragus for this undertaking. He'd be doing me and other modders a favour if he put the contents of the text file into a spreadsheet.

Of course you can navigate the existing one reasonably well, even in notepad, you just have to know what you are looking for. Unless you are dealing with one of those icon files that is - for want of a better word - fragmented. Then I've had to go on a fishing expedition on more than one occ., so if this is actually addressed in the excel format then I'd be much obliged.

Some of us just are not that computer literate I am afraid.

Incidentally a lot of the icons that I made myself for my mod were actually made in - of all things - mspaint. :o :doh:

Took a while to get going but then its my time I was wasting so ... .

[originally posted by: DRG]

Of course we would be up **** creek if someone had not done all the work before hand and was kind enough to share.

"Midgets standing on the shoulders of giants" comes to mind as an expression to sum that up.

Hope everyone is having a nice Advent.

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Why are you treating this like an argument Don? I have not disputed anything you have written or directed any ill your or the teams way.

Your text editor sounds exactly like what I am trying to get out of Excel. Currently I just use Windows notepad to read .txt files. Its painful! Hence my motivation for "function". Is your editor a licensed product or can it be shared?

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

EditPlus is a licenced product I bought in 1999 to do this kind of work., There are free trial DL of the latest version that are apparently more fully functioned than my v1.25 copy but the version I use on a daily basis does everything I need so I've never bothered with the newer versions.

My POINT is and remains......with EditPlus finding my way around the existing list is, in fact easier than it would be using Excel. ( I know this because I use both daily ) Suggesting that you are "taking one for the team and community" by building an Excel version is from my POV at the very least an arrogant assumption that I "need" this to make finding things easier because the existing list is poorly done and difficult to navigate...nothing could be further from the truth. If you create a list don't fool yourself that I will use it......it'll be for you and a tiny handful of others

Re: Modder's Toolkit?
 

Again, sorry you feel that way Don. Not my intention whatsoever. It was meant to be taken light heartedly as I will do the work to convert it because of the amount of time it would take. I guess my humor was lost via text.

I was not saying you or the team "need" to do anything. Heck, I didn't address you or the team on this. Just another mod that, not knowing what I just learned, I hoped the team would use. With your editor, you would be crazy to switch. Excel would just be a modder friendly tool, for those without the text editor. But, I will look into EditPlus for sure. It would be great to install it and, BAME, complete function like I am looking for. If that is the case may I post it here for others to utilize? Thank you for the reference.

This game has gotten to where it is because of the SP Camo Team. You know that I know that and I thank you for all your efforts.