Error in Abn mtr unit?
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Game setting is June 1950, all para battle. Both my opponent and I have purchased the USA abn 81mm mtr which is part of the abn battalion support, the mtr unit looks like a squad. We have noted that neither of us can get the mortars to fire indirect, is this correct?
I have attached a test setup. |
Re: Error in Abn mtr unit?
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Should you want regular mortars for indirect fire then you should buy regular mortars and load those in the plane, where AFAIR the crew is split and so has to find their assigned mortar and join up after landing. |
Re: Error in Abn mtr unit?
Why are they btn support then since they cannot support the btn? Btn mortars do not run forward to fire directly at the enemy, they are organic indirect fire fast response artillery that deploy with the btn HQ.
I am going through the oobs and so far the USA para btn support is the only one like this, the French AFN support has indirect 81, as does Russia (inf btn support), Romanian mountain btn support, Swedish btn support to name a few. According to the TO&E of the airborne battalion the mortars: THE COMPANY IS SUPPORTED BY THE BATTALION HEADQUARTERS ON A MISSION BASIS WITH 81-MM MORTAR FIRE. The btn is supporting the company; it even states that the company 60mm mortars are to: PARAGRAPH 05, 60MM MORTAR SECTION. (1) FUNCTION. THIS SECTION OPERATES UNDER DIRECT CONTROL OF THE RIFLE COMPANY HEADQUARTERS BUT CAN, AS MISSION DICTATES, BE ATTACHED TO A RIFLE PLATOON. THIS SECTION WITH TWO MORTARS MAY BE EMPLOYED IN THE INDIRECT FIRE OR DIRECT FIRE MODE TO PROVIDE LIMITED IMMEDIATE FIRE SUPPORT TO THE RIFLE COMPANY. https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit.../07037L000.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M252_mortar: Used for long range indirect fire and finally: http://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Porta...f%20Motars.pdf I am not *****ing, I am asking a question as this just doesn't seem right. If even the company 60mm are for indirect then why are the btn support mortars direct fire only? |
Re: Error in Abn mtr unit?
The direct fire mortars allow you to get some fire support on map without the mortar and the crew separated...... that's what they do and that is a game function that has existed for years.....if you want indirect mortars then you buy normal mortars and they end up with the mortar one place and the crew another and the player need to re-join the two then wait a turn before they can be targeted.......again......the direct fire mortars are an infantry class so you get some support on landing but they are not indirect fire capable
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Re: Error in Abn mtr unit?
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Para Mortar Pl with "Abn 81mm Mtr" is direct fire so you get some fire support and it's only used by 127 Para Mortar Pl - Available: 01/46-12/53 after that Para Mortar Pl from 1/54 - 12 /65 is a normal indirect capable mortar and it's used in Para Bn Spt [A] so it is dropped and the crew separates out. AFAIK it's been like that for over a decade.......and there are no Russian [A] mortar units and if you think there are then provide formation numbers. I cannot be expected to remember ever detail of the 17+ thousand formations in MBT. What you are commenting on is ONE unit in the US operating for 8 years used in Used in Formation 132 Para Bn Spt [A] and in Formation 219 Para Bn Spt both run 1/46-12/53 and have now been renamed Para DF Mtr Pl for greater clarity... that is set up to allow players some mortar support that does not need to be rejoined and here's the list of all the units in the game that use that unit class and are therefore direct fire only mortars...so it's not just that one US formation that is set up like that NationID NationName name slot 1 Egypt Para Mortar 216 4 Israel 60mm Para Mtrs 522 4 Israel 60mm Para Mtrs 523 4 Israel 60mm Para Mtrs 524 5 Japan Para Mortars 462 5 Japan Para Mortars 463 5 Japan Para Mortars 464 5 Japan Para Mortars 465 6 France 60mm Mortar 344 6 France 60mm Mortar 381 12 USA Abn 81mm Mtr 516 14 China 100mm T80 Mtr 405 14 China 100mm PP-89 Mtr 407 18 India Para Support 546 18 India Para Support 545 18 India Para Support 544 18 India Para Support 543 18 India Para Support 542 19 North Korea Abn 60mm Mortar 598 19 North Korea Abn 60mm Mortar 599 27 Belgium Para Support 527 27 Belgium Para Mortar 542 27 Belgium Para Mortar 543 30 Canada Para Mortars 507 30 Canada Para Mortars 508 30 Canada Para Mortars 509 30 Canada Para Mortars 510 30 Canada Para Mortars 511 31 Greece Para Support 321 31 Greece Para Support 322 31 Greece Para Support 323 34 Italy Para DF Mortars 417 34 Italy Para DF Mortars 415 34 Italy Para DF Mortars 416 41 Yugoslavia / Serbia 60mm Para Mtrs 289 41 Yugoslavia / Serbia 60mm Para Mtrs 290 41 Yugoslavia / Serbia 60mm Para Mtrs 291 41 Yugoslavia / Serbia 60mm Para Mtrs 292 41 Yugoslavia / Serbia 60mm Para Mtrs 293 46 Austria FJg 81mm GrW 368 52 South Africa 81mm DF Mortars 215 52 South Africa 81mm DF Mortars 216 52 South Africa 81mm DF Mortars 217 53 Switzerland Fsch Moerser 366 53 Switzerland Fsch Moerser 367 60 Croatia 60mm Para Mors 293 63 Ethiopia Para DF Mortars 438 63 Ethiopia Para DF Mortars 457 67 Sudan Para Mortar 542 71 Indonesia Para 81 Mortars 571 71 Indonesia Para 81 Mortars 572 71 Indonesia Para 81 Mortars 573 73 Portugal Para Mortar Sec 214 73 Portugal Para Mortar Sec 215 73 Portugal Para Mortar Sec 216 73 Portugal Para Mortar Sec 217 73 Portugal Para Mortar Sec 218 73 Portugal Para Mortar Sec 219 73 Portugal Para Mortar Sec 220 73 Portugal Para Mortar Sec 221 86 Rhodesia Para Mortar 98 95 For R&D only 81mm ParaMortar 217 but if you think we're being unfair I can build a new one with mortars that will be dropped in two parts to cover those 8 years. APPARENTLY this is one formation that was set up this way then fell through the cracks as it seems that every year after 1953 the mortars are normal DF ......but as you can see there are a lot of other nations that use the same type of unit. |
Re: Error in Abn mtr unit?
I would be interested in seeing what TO&E was used to determine direct fire 81mm mortars as support; I have never heard of such a thing so a reference would be fantastic. I cannot find anything on it, but I can on indirect fire. My point really on those para btn support unit is that the mortars are not listed as DF (I guess the next patch will be so?) unlike the 60mm mortars that have DF with them. I bought them thinking they were indirect, I shouldn't have to read the manual for each unit before buying it (nor should my opponent).
But while we are at it, there are Canadian 2 man 60mm mortars that will not fit in an empty dakota, but the 6 man 60mm mortar will. Want me to post a file? |
Re: Error in Abn mtr unit?
Russia formation 103,105,106
Romania 108 Sweden 98 The para mortar is Cdn unit 502 (sten smg + 60mm DF mortar)lists as too heavy to load on am empty dakota but it is part of an airborne company (A). |
Re: Error in Abn mtr unit?
Yes
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Re: Error in Abn mtr unit?
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If you can try loading the mortar, it doesn't work for me.
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Re: Error in Abn mtr unit?
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