Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

I respectfully disagree :). All of the team captains are much better players than I am. I'm knowledgeable, but I just don't have anything like the experience that any of the other captains have. Any of them would eat me for breakfast.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

I will offer to captain team Mysterios (it only makes sense, since the team was named after me). That means Executor would have to switch to captain The Blessed Ones. My nation does not matter, you can just give me one Sept. Ermor would probably be thematic.

This is the only conditions under which I will play.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

I am fine with that, but let us hear from Executor on the matter.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

Executor does not want the team name and suggested a replacement name.

I assume it is the name rather than the players that Lingchih wants? Or maybe he will only play if you are on his team Sept :p Swapping the team players about may be more difficult if they have already started discussing plans....

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

Yeah, we've started, and I've reviled my strategy with Lanka.
But I have no problem changing teams, or names, GO DOMINIONS UNITED!!! :bow::first:
However, I'd have to switch nations if I'm changing teams, hmmm, Hinnom alowed!?!??!:D

Sorry, I'm a little carried away by the Eurobasket 2009, it's finals today.:eek:

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

We need one more vet, huh?

Someone contact Micah and tell him he's a pussy.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

It seems as if Lingchi really just wants to captain a team with the name Mysterious - and executor doesn't care about the name.

(Correct me if I'm wrong)
So change the team names - and lets go!

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

Nevermind. I've changed my mind. I'm still too burned out on this series to do a team justice. You guys go ahead without me.
Sorry for the post.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

if you can't find another vet, I'd suggest exe moving over to fill the missing team's captaincy, promoting psi to the first team's captain (he's certainly capable), and adding frozenlama to that first team, who strikes me as a noob with a lot of potential.

of course Executor and Psisoldier probably have already created a terrifying plan for world conquest :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

I am grateful to those vets who have participated thus far and who have participated in my games in the past. I would like to see one of those who have yet to do so, step up and take on the challenge. They know who they are. But I'd just as eagerly welcome any of the old ones, including Ling, back into the fold as well. Failing that we may have to seek an upper level intermediate or follow Arch's suggestion.

This game is not for those vets who are only interested in playing with other vets exclusively or who won't consider a game unless it advances them in the HOF standings. The emphasis remains on cooperation, learning, helping the many lesser experienced players in the community become better at the game, and just plain having a good time.

Who will help?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

ChrisP has not let me in on anything that i shouldn't know, so if i switch teams or something its cool. i can play on any of the slots, noob or otherwise.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

I do like the concept behind this game (more so than the NvV series which had to engage in complex formulaics in attempting balance); two players who've been around and two who've less so.

I'm committed to one small game upcoming, and honestly that is at my limit, currently.

I wouldn't worry too much about the notion of "vet". As long as they've played a few games and seen a few tricks :)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

Well, we have done a little bit of planning I'm the one that asked Executor to captain my team in the first place, although nothing has been decided concretely. We can do whatever we have to do to get things moving along though.

I would say I am not yet a Vet, I still find myself asking questions and learning new things all the time. But I am good and I know that much.

Maybe thats enough.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

I'll be interested in being an alternate; don't have time to commit as a player right now as I've still got a number of games running in the early stages.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

Welcome shard, have you any team preference?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

I've created 4 forums for those teams who wish to use them at:

http://noobsvets.silverforum.net

Contact your team captain or admins for the code you'll need before registering.

Thanks.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

Either Noobheim or Mysterios I guess, I'd like to see how a vet plays heavy blood nations.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Almost Full.
 

Ok, I'll add you to the Mysterios, since Noobheim already has an alternate.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

I've been thinking about my original suggestion of nation picking and concluded that it will lead to a lot of rounds of conflicted picks. Which might be fun if we were all sitting in a room - but resubmitting pick lists based via mail might be a pain.

How about instead the following pick list

Team A
Team B
Team C
Team D
Team D
Team C
Team B
Team A
Team D
Team C
Team B
Team A

Then each team can (secretly) submit a list of what which team they would like to be. So for example B-A-D-C would say I want our team to be Team b- and failing that to be team A, then D, then C.



Sept would give any uncontested choices, and then roll randomly between contested choices.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

Chris, can you clarify your above post. Your original intent behind your first suggestion was to ensure that some of the lesser picked nation's would be chosen via the groups of 3. But because of the conflicts, I suggested just a simpler method:

Each team provides a ranked list of say 12 nation picks (we need only 3 nations to pick on each team). I run through the four lists, line by line, and grant each uncontected pick (if present) on each line to the respective teams.

Myst.......Deva's........Blessed..........Noobheim

Hinnom....Arco..........Hinnom...........Abys (Deva's get Arco, and Noobheim gets Abys)
Arco........Ermor.........Sauro............Hinnom (Deva's get Ermor, Blesseds get Sauro, Noobheim gets Hinnom)
Ermor......Sauro.........Agartha..........Arco (Blesseds get Agartha)

Etc.

This would be much simpler for me (if I'm doing the distribution) and would ensure that generally lesser picked nations get choosen if the teams rank them high enough. True it is not likely teams will rank Machaka over Hinnom, but since we don't know what strategies the teams are pursuing, we can't be certain they won't choose or rank a lesser played nation high.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

Sure sept. Each team will either be Team A, Team B, Team C, or Team D.

Each team then pics a nation according to the schedule below. Team A pics first, then b, etc.

1. Team A
2.Team B
3.Team C
4.Team D
5.Team D
6.Team C
7.Team B
8.Team A
9.Team D
10.Team C
11.Team B
12.Team A


Advantages: 'Fairer' less likely to be subject to whims of luck.
Teams more likely to be evenly distributed.

Disadvantages: Weaker AI's.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

That would work also, if it is done from ranked lists, and it would be the same way we did it in NvV3. But if it is done by waiting for an individual post it would take forever.

Only problem with the method, since one team must go first, it gives team A an effective first choice, and gives team D two picks in a row. Though, your right, it would be less subject to luck.

However, if we go with my method, luck is reduced somewhat, since we have 4 teams, it is less likely than having say 2 teams, that all 4 would have the same picks each time.

So lets decide, which method do the rest of you prefer, chris' suggestion or mine?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

I like Chris's method although it will take some time. It will also allow people to theme/coordinate their team more. As they will know what they have for their first pick before they make their second. And see how the other teams are forming.

But it does take longer of course.

I would not worry too much about the AIs. Popular choices are likely to be those with good Thugs and Mages which the AIs will use badly rather than good troops that it will use well. Plus a lot of boosts can be given by map commands. Gandalf could start each with 100 of their best troops (or indeed any type of troops from any age) or more. Plus some kitted out Thugs etc. Which should boost them at the beginning at least.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

Hi,
If you need a newb, i would like to try.

Immac.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

Welcome Immac. Yes, we can always use more noobs and intermediate level players to fill our alternate slots, unless you have a preference I am going to assign you to the Mysterios, as an alternate.

You may be called into the active lineup before the game starts if a slot opens up. Otherwise you can expect action if someone needs a sub or drops during the game.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

Frankly, I am disappointed that no one in the community has the time, or the courage, or the desire, to fill the vet team captain position in our game. Nonetheless, we've waited long enough, done what we could, and now we must move on to the nation selection process.

Therefore, following Arch's advice, I am making the following team changes:

I am moving PsiSoldier to The Blessed Ones, and promoting him to the captaincy of that team. Psi, please choose your nation ASAP and register for the forums if you wish to use them. Psi and Executor, you'll either need to change strategies or forget what you've discussed.

I am moving Frozen Llama to the intermediate slot on the Mysterios to fill Psi's vacant slot.

I am also moving Shard to Noobheim's alternate slot to compensate for the loss of Frozen Llama as an alternate for that team.

We should now be able to move on to the nation selection process. If you've opinions/questions regarding this process, now is the time to express them.

Thanks.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

The captain selects my nation for me, correct?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

It sounds fine to me to get started that way. Frankly, I don't have an opinion on the selection process. It's too new to me. But I'm itching to play :)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Vet Team Captain Needed!
 

If we follow chris' suggestion, and If I understand it correctly, yes, the captains would do the nation selections via posts on this thread (in consultation with their team of course) in the alternating manner chris described in his last post. ABCDD, and so forth. I am assuming that team A would be the mysterio's and would go first (after psi makes his choice of course), team B would be the Deva's, team C would be the Blessed Ones, and team D would be Noobheim.

If you'd prefer my method or another one, now is the time for everyone to speak up.

Chris, if this is not what you had in mind, then I apologize and we will await a fuller explanation.

DrP, Executor, Psi, make sure you understand and are OK with what has been suggested.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

Let each captain send a list (as I have) of their Prefences in order.

Ie., perhaps mysterious absolutely wants to pick first to get Hinnom. They would might tell you they want to be team A. And if they can't get A they want B, then C then D.

Another team may choose to be D, A B C.

You as the admin take those suggestions - and then resolve to give the result closest to their best choice.

Then let the picking begin.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

I would like to be team D. I need to consult with my lieutenants before picking nations, however.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

Chris, this is quite convoluted, but I think finally understand what your saying:

Team captains PM me with a list of their team letter preferences: A,B,C,D :Four letters in the arrangement they'd like to pick nations. So Dr. P would need 3 more letters(picks).

I then resolve to see who is going to be team A and pick first, who is going to be team B, and pick second, who is going to be team C and pick third, and lastly who is going to be team D and pick last.

Then we get to the actual nation picking and team A chooses their 3 nations and posts here?

Do I have it correct? Seems like everyone one would give there preference as a, b, c, d. In order to go first.

If not you've confounded me totally.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

Hmm, wouldn't that lead to the first team getting the strongest nations and the forth team getting the weakest?
I'm fine either way whatever the nations are, but wouldn't it be easier to get random picks?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

I really think we ought to stick with my suggestion, each captain submitting a list of 12 or so nations then I resolve via this method:

Myst.......Deva's........Blessed..........Noobheim

Hinnom....Arco..........Hinnom...........Abys (Deva's get Arco, and Noobheim gets Abys)
Arco........Ermor.........Sauro............Hinnom (Deva's get Ermor, Blesseds get Sauro, Noobheim gets Hinnom)
Ermor......Sauro.........Agartha..........Arco (Blesseds get Agartha)

Etc.

Lets keep this as simple as possible.

Failing any agreement or a full and complete explanation of any alternatives, I will make the final decision on this matter.

Sorry but we must getting going.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

While I understand your frustration Sept I think your method is not a good one :(

Imagine that all teams put the same three nations top believing these to be the best. But they ALL go to one team simply because he ranked them differently. How is that fair or skillful yet would have a huge impact on the game. All nations were not made equal in Dom 3 :)

Plus it may let very powerful nations go 'cheap' later on, likewise if you are 'thinking the same' as another team you may both end up with just your lower ranked choices. So this method ends up making the rankings/voting very luck dominated.

It would be marginally better if you could pick the same nation multiple times (so you could put Himmon in all the top 5 slots if you wanted, more or less guaranteeing you get it but at the cost of most of the other top nations being taken by others before your second pick arrives).

It also does not really allow any meaningful team construction. By which I mean you may want a Researcher nation, a recruitable Thug nation and a sneaky raider nation. By your method it's much harder to bid for this as you won't know whether you will get your first picks or not. So you may end up with all Sneaky Raiders because the others were all tied.

Both of CPs methods were better IMHO. As both allowed you to use your bids to construct a team. They both allowed you much more control over what you got.

I appreciate they are slightly more complex and would take longer. But the second CP method (the ABCD teams) is pretty quick once the teams are decided. And we could use your method to select which letter each team gets :p

I suppose it doesn't matter that much, it's just that your method (which would be OK if this were a free for all none team game) seems very bad for team game.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

How's about this - each captain sends in a list of 12 ranked nations, and then you assign the four teams to A,B,C and D randomly?

Then, A gets his first choice, B gets his first (remaining choice)... and then they go backwards?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

No

If you look at the pick list it goes ABCD for the first round.
Every round thereafter goes DCBA

So, yes, team A gets the first overall pick - the strongest nation overall. Every other round, he gets the weakest pick.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

just ask me to assign nations based on what I consider to be the most evil and frustrating combinations :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

I've sent PMs to everyone who wasn't already signed up for the forums - feel free to use it for coordination as you like.

The forum, btw, is here: http://noobsvets.silverforum.net/index.php

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

Wouldn't it just be easier to have someone (archaeolept) have as many numbers as their are captians.

Let the captians pick and thats the order for the first Round.

Second round its reversed, third round its reversed agian etc.

Like Fantasy Football (if any of you play that), its called a 'Snake draft' and it works real well and real fair. (ask the 50 illion plers every year).

so it goes like this (numbers are 1,2,3,4.

Team 1 picks, team 2 picks, team 3 picks, team 4 picks (Round 1 over)

Team 4 picks (yes he picks twice in a row) then team 3, team 2, team 1 (Round 2 over)

Team 1 picks agian ect. Works like a charm and even the 2 and 3 teams get thier fiarhare as they are in the middle each time.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

There does seem to be little agreement on this.

Holpo and Chris, I understand your concern with my method. But the likelyhood that all four teams would rank the same 3 nations highest is slim. The odds of it happening are 1 in 204 (17 available nations * 3 slots * 4 teams). Even if teams are pursuing similar strategies, it is still not likely. And Psi is likely to grab Hinnom for his team, so that will take care of what I expect will be at the top of everyone's list.

Further, there are multiple researcher type nations, multiple stealth/raider nations, etc. Just be sure your ranked list has more than one of these fairly close to the top and you're likely to get most of what your looking for. Swaps for unassigned nations can be used to smooth out any issues.

But, I've already recieved a ranked list of 13 nations from the devas (12+1 to account for Psi's pick). Since we need these ranked lists from the other teams anyway, I suggest everyone do likewise and get those lists to me ASAP.

Then I'll resolve using both my method, and one similar to what we used in NvV, which was ABCDDCBA (just like what chris suggested) except with a random number generator (as DrP suggested) available on the web, for deciding which team is going to be A,B,C, or D.

I'll post the results and you guys decide which option you want to go with.

Sound fair enough?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

The odds you quoted are for random distribution - and have nothing to do with the problem at hand. No vet will pic yomi, agartha, hellheim, oceania, ea rlyeh as the strongest nation, for example.

The only difference between your second suggestion (random number generator) and mine - was that I'm letting team captains pick whether they want to be a,b,c or d rather than a random number generator.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

1. 17 nations doesn't include water nations, I don't know what a vet will pick for their top 3, but they could conceivably pick any of the 17 available.

2. Correct, but your method of picking which team wants to be A,B,C,D was rather confusing too me. You wanted vets to submit a list of 4 choices: like bcad, or abcd, or cabd, and I'd then need to resolve this as well to decide who gets to be team A (and gets the first pick) and so forth. It seems far too likely that teams would choose adbc or adcb in order of preference in order to get A or D since A grants an effective first choice, and D grants two picks in a row. Really no need for this extra layer of complexity my friend.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

Actually, that works real well (ABCD-DCBA). I am in 4 of those every year and I have found the best spot to be #2 (#4 in a 12 team draft). You still get a good nation on your first pick and another pretty good nation on the way back, with the almost identical level on your third pick.

1rst pick gets the 1-8-9-16-17 picks.

4th gets the 4-5-12-13-20 picks

So it really doesn't favor anyone in a team.

My opinion only:up:

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

Ok, I've received a ranked list of nations from chris' team.
I am awaiting a similar list of 12 or 13 nations from Executor and Psi's team.

While I enjoy these debates:

Bottom line people, as DrP pointed out in his PM, regardless of what method we choose, there is no way that I can see to guarantee that teams will get everything they want in their top choices regardless of who picks first or picks last.

Your best bet if you want to make sure your team gets a good mix of for example a researching nation, a military power, a stealth nation (if that is what your strategy entails) is to ensure that your ranked lists have more than one of these type of nations near the top of your list.

The nature of team games is compromise and cooperation, we can't make everyone on every team completely happy. The goal of this game is not winning, and is not intended for victory oriented players, hence why many vets are not attracted. It's nice but not the be all and end all.

The goal is rather the education of the noobs which comprise 50% of the players. The AI element, aside from it's thematic purpose, is intended not to provide any real challenge to the vets or intermediates but to allow the noobs to gain more experience versus the AI. As a bonus, the human team that takes an early lead versus the AI, will have an advantage going into the MP portion of the game.

Let's not get sidetracked, and not forget about having fun here.

Regarding the map: I hope you all have checked the map (you've had ample time to express any concerns) and don't have any issues with my placement. It is a small map and a cramped situation (NvV I deja vu). A very few starts are in provinces with terrain masks that include forest, swamp, and waste. However, I don't think this will be a significant economic detriment to anyone since the surrounding terrain types count more. If you have any issues with the proposed starts, speak your mind now.

Failing that, lets get it on, get going and see how this first game plays out.

Thanks.
Your humble and overworked admin.:D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

I am without power for 24 hours, and possibly longer.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

I've registered but I still haven't received a confirmation...?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

Back, with power.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

Same here

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Nation Selection Underway.
 

Hoplo, and Shard, both of your accounts are activated on the forums. In fact we've got 15 players from all 4 teams registered and activated. I assumed notification e-mails would be sent by default, but that may be something I have to configure. All in all I like the look, feel, and functionality of this new forum. What do the rest of you think?