Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution
 

Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution

Please try to suggest the core force for these ToOs:

1. Steming the NVA: The Ia Drang valley Campaign Sep-Dec. 1965 (ToO#1)

2. The Coastal Campaign: The 1st Cav in Binh Dinh province Jan-Mar. 1966 (ToO#2)

3. Battle on Two Fronts: Screening the Cambodian border and rooting the NVA out of Binh Dinh Mar-Oct. 1966 (ToO#3)

4. Pacification: Taming Binh Dinh once and for all Oct 66-Jan 68 (ToO#4)

5. Cavalry to the Rescue! Northern I Corps Tet Offensive Campaign Jan-Oct 68 (ToO#5)

6. The Cav Moves South: Screening Saigon Oct 68-May 1970 (ToO#6)

7. Into the Unknown: Cambodia Incursions May-June 1970 (ToO#7)

8. Stand Down and Redeployement: The Final Years July 70-June 72 (ToO#8) (?)

i) Just post your input and try to relate the core force based on the stock oob with the above numbers of ToOs.
ii) For ToO No1 input the starting core force and for the each/next ToOs just input the additional forces attachments.
iii) It is best to first put the starting core force and then input the ending/full core force; this way you may decide better what should be the step for the additional core forces for each ToO.
iv) It would be great if you could add also the type/name/cost of each element of the proposed core force, as well the total number of core force points after the addition/step of ToO core force increase.


Structure of the U.S. Army
Officially, a member of the U.S. Army is called a Soldier (always capitalized). The U.S. Army is divided into the following components, from largest to smallest:


Field Army:
Usually commanded by a General (GEN; note that abbreviations of military rank are given in all capital letters without a period or other punctuation).

Corps:
Consists of two or more divisions and organic support brigades. The commander is most often a Lieutenant General (LTG).

Division:
Usually commanded by a Major General (MG).

Brigade (or group):
Composed of typically three or more battalions, and commanded by a Colonel (COL) or Brigadier General. (See Regiment for combat arms units.)

Battalion (or squadron):
Most units are organized into battalions. Cavalry units are formed into squadrons. A battalion-sized unit is commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel (LTC), supported by a Command Sergeant Major/E-9 (CSM). This unit consists of a Battalion Commander (CO, LTC), a Battalion Executive Officer (XO,MAJ), a Command Sergeant Major (CSM) and headquarters, 3-5 Company Commanders (CPT), 3-5 Company Executive Officers (1LT), 3-5 First Sergeants (1SG) and headquarters, 6 or more Platoon Leaders (2LT/1LT), 6 or more Platoon sergeants (SFC),and 12 or more Squad Leaders (any NCO).

Company (or battery/troop):
Artillery units are formed into batteries. Cavalry units are formed into troops. A company-sized unit is usually led by a Company Commander usually the rank of Captain/O-3 (CPT) supported by a First Sergeant/E-8 (1SG). This unit consists of a Company Commander (CO, CPT), a Company Executive Officer (XO,1LT), A First Sergeant(1SG) and a headquarters, Two or more Platoon Leaders (2LT/1LT), two or more Platoon Sergeants (SFC), and four or more Squad Leaders (any NCO).

Platoon:
Usually led by a lieutenant supported by a Sergeant First Class/E-7 (SFC). This unit consists of a Platoon Leader (2LT/1LT), a Platoon Sergeant (SFC), and two or more Squad Leaders (any NCO).

Section:
Usually directed by Staff Sergeants/E-6 (SSG) who supply guidance for junior NCO Squad leaders. Often used in conjunction with platoons at the company level.

Squad:
Squad leaders are often Staff Sergeants/E-6 (SSG), Sergeants/E-5 (SGT), or Corporals/E-4 (CPL). This unit consists of eight to ten Soldiers.

Fire team:
Usually consists of four Soldiers: a fire team leader, a grenadier, and two riflemen. Fire team leaders are often Corporal/E-4 (CPL).

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution
 

Gentlemen,

Beside the addition of core units at fixed intervals of the campaign (army evolution), there is one idea that keeps coming in my mind.
I have already mentioned this yesterday in another thread but it is better to add it here in order to discuss it.

As you know probably in the start of each ToO the game will give some additional predefined troops to the player.
The quality and quantity will be decided in the next phase.
What is interesting to discuss is the option to include a small inter-active trick:

In the final mission of each (some?) ToOs the player will deploy his force on a special small map with three VP flags on it!!! and a mission duration of 1 turn.

But... What these flags represent and why this scenario has a duration of 1?

Next to each VP flag/location the player will read a name of unit/formation (for example mortar platoon or engineers or off-map medium arty).
By moving one of his troops to the appropriate flag/VP location the player will earn some points that will give him (since the battle duration is set to 1 turn) in the next turn a precise score that will lead to type of victory conditions (loss - draw - decisive victory).

Here are 2 tricks:
1. The player according to the victory level he will be redirected to a link (starting point of the next ToO) that will give him as additional core force the selected unit. Then the loop will be closed and the link of the campaign will follow the normal path.
2. Since the victory conditions of the mission will influence the final score, then the unit next to decisive loss will be somehow more important (helos?) than the unit next to the path Decisive victory (light off map arty?)
This way the player will have to make a choice between campaign points and the quality of the selected unit.

The above mechanism should happen in only 3 ToOs (occasions) and should add a different blend to the campaign (more personal). In all the rest ToOs we will provide to the player predefined Core force reinforcements.

cheers,
Pyros

p.s when I will return back from isolation/meditation trip I will add a schematic for the above.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution
 

Question:
if all flags are within reach of the player (have to be in order for the player have a choice at all) what will keep him from moving a unit (of which he'll have plenty) to each of the flags?

This could work though but as far as I can tell, only if the player has exactly one unit (no more, no less) that could reach these flags. So if he has received helo's as part of his core force at any previous point in the campaign, this 'trick' won't work. That would mean keeping helo's AUX all the time.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolution
 

Remco,

The flag/system will be explained as a mechanism of the campaign.
The player should be instructed to simply move only one unit to only one VP/flag location.
If he wishes to move all his units to all three flags then he will get a decisive victory and he will receive as core force reinforcement the unit of the third flag (logic?).

Some info about the mechanism:
At the start of the battle all the flags will be under the NVA colors, this mean that the player will begin the battle with a decisive Loss at hand. So it is up to him to step on the appropriate flag and receive the points to score the need result in order to obtain the selected unit.

It is the same system with the secondary missions but here it lead to selected units! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

cheers,
Pyros

p.s I will post a map 30x30 to show you what I mean.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

modified Units:
The UH-1 ARA "Hog"
http://www.gruntonline.com/images/Pi.../us_helo16.jpg

A huey with a total of 48 2.75 FFAR's used quite extensively in the 1st cavs battles around LZ X-ray, normally taking over from the Tube arty to cover the final approach of the Slicks. Then to provide close air support to the Infantry once on the ground.

Normal Mode of operation was to dump half the rockets carried in one go at an area around the LZ to keep the NVA's heads down while the Slicks unload. Then to use the rest in support of the infantry.

IT was named the Hog because due to the massive weight of the rocket packs it was very sluggish.

To model this accurately I would have preferred to create a separate unit, and weapons in the OOB, but we're not allowed to.

So, to use in a senario:
Get a UH1 Gunship, change all 4 weapon slots to weapon #148 (4x FFAR), and give each weapon 3 rounds of HE ammo. However that doesn't work as good as it could, as It only really suppresses the unit it's aimed at.

On a side note If you need something more fancy for you helicopter gunships:
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aahist2.htm#UH1M
In fact that page seems to cover most Helicopters in the period, even if not in detail.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

I think the best for a Cav campaign is to build the core force progressively around the 1st Sqn, 9th cavalry, which was the reconnaissace unit of the 1st Cav, a 100% airmobile unit and a concept experimented for the first time in Vietnam. The Squadron had 3 Air Troops, each with a "White" aero-scout platoon (light obs helos like the loach), a "Red" aero-weapons platoon (with hueys and cobras gunships) and a "Blue" aero-rifle platoon with an infantry platoon and transport helos. It had also an Ad Hoc ground troops (Troop D) outfitted with gunjeeps and upgunned 3/4 ton trucks.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Well the recce unit could have a single troop as the advanced party for clearing the an khe area of enemy, with the help of the 101.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Here's the TO&E of an Air Cavalry Troop, Vietnam-style (as per Stanton's Vietnam Order of Battle )

-Officers: 14
-Warrant Officers: 33
-Soldiers 147

-.50-cal Machineguns: 7
-7.62mm M-60 Machineguns: 4
-5.56 M16 Rifles: 101
-.45-cal Pistols: 15
-.38-cal Revolvers: 78

-AH-1G Cobras: 9
-OH-6A Loaches: 9
-UH-1B Hogs: 2
-UH-1D Slicks: 6

-2 1/2-ton trucks: 8
-3/4-ton trucks: 6
-1/4-ton utility Vehicles: 3

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

That's a troop? I'd hate to see what a squadron comprises of..

Of course we've almost certainly running into that age old problem of what I call a troop, isn't what you call a troop...

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

I think we should exclude the AIR assets (as Core force; only available as AUX reinforcements) until the 2 or 3 ToO.
Now the big question is what we have available to use from the US OOB?

What are our possibilities?

Here is just a first quick proposal (to serve as a base for further discussions)

1 ToO: Ad Hoc ground troops (Troop D) outfitted with gunjeeps and upgunned 3/4 ton trucks
2 ToO: Off-map Divisional Artillery
3 ToO: Divisional Engineers
4, 5, 6 ToOs, any combination of White, Red, Blue
7 ToO: an additional Air Troop
8 ToO: an additional Air Troop (this way the core force will have the strength of a reinforced Air squadrom
9 ToO: Free use of Core force points for alternate history ToO.

What do you think?

cheers,

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Well a Troop is the Cavalry equivalent of a Company, and a Squadron the equivalent of a Battalion, at least that's what it was in Vietnam

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Well, I'm not sure we should include the ground troop, it will be ill-suited for most of the scenarios, but for the rest I agree, maybe we should start with the aero-rifle platoon (one platoon of infantry, 6 hueys and 2 escort gunships)? we might have problems towards the end of the campaign though, as an Air Cav Squadron is a powerful unit that includes like 27 Cobras, 27 Loaches, 18 hueys, thats a lot of units to move around...

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

On basic line troops.

There doesn't seem to be anything we could take.
My understanding is that the US Aircav forces had the following gear: 8 men (the load ability of an early huey) with M16's, one M60 and M79. there would have been some M1911 .45's as well.

Nothing in the list comes that close to the above.

Forces available.
1 ToO: 1x infantry troop, raising to a company or battalion in the later stages of this ToO. Of course aloft of the extra troops could conceivably be Aux units from the same battalion.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Maybe we shouldn't try to built the core force around actual TO&Es and real untis but let the player built whatever he wishes using Pyros idea of 1-turn missions. We could start with a single infantry platoon, then at the end of each ToO let him chose between several options like an additional infantry platoon, a 105mm battery, a 155mm battery, an Aerial Rocket battery, an aero-scout platoon, an engineer platoon etc....each time adding a platoon or equivalent to his core force so he would end up with roughly two companies, more would be too large to maneuver I think.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

This maybe the case after the 2-3 ToO and for just a couple of times, because IMO I fear that it will create very severe balance issues (?)
Anyway if we don't use Air transport as core force in the first two ToOs we may include in these ToOs a lot of chapters (mission types; maybe fictional?) with advanced design techniques as the ones some of you have mentioned in the mission types thread.
For instance the "crashed heli" or the "evacuation" type of scenarios/missions.
But after the second ToO we may (indeed) let the player choose between the same "type" of support core force units as "a 105mm battery, a 155mm battery, an Aerial Rocket battery".

But what should we use (from the stock US OOB) for the first 2 ToOs in order to exclude the ability to have air trasport as core force (in order to make use of the special scenarios)?
Would you like that we start with a special force platoon from the "Marines OOB" (defending the special forces base in the first ToO / at some point the 1stCAV/DIV will come to the rescue; 1-2 ToOs)...
Is is possible/logical to mix units between the two OOBs (US-Marines)?
Anyway what do you think of the following as possible infantry for the foot troopD selection(?)?
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...-selection.JPG

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

I think we can avoid the air trans being in many of the scenario's as Core Units if, we primarily use them to come in after the battle starts, say to evac or move units out of an LZ.

I mean, would they land them in a hot LZ (probably if needed BUT this would not be the primary way to do it). They would be inserted a little ways away and move in to the objective area to make contact on foot.

This set up can be used to justify the lack of helo's in the Core Force as the scenario's would start just after they have offloaded and set up and assembly area to move out from.

If the ground unit needed to move to an LZ to be extracted from, the helo's are added as Aux/Reinforcements.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

DD,

I agree with you, but the problem is the following:
What should we use as infantry platoons for the core force?

The stock OOB is providing us with a platoon(H)(scouts+Helos), some support helos (gunships) and some scout helos.

Concerning the Gunship and the Scout helos there isn't any actual problem (since they have 0 transport values); we may include them from ToO 2 or 3...

The problem (concerning gameplay issues) would be if we include Helos as transport for the core force in the first couple of ToOs. This is why, I think we may start our core force (all the rest will be AUX) with the mechanized infantry (troop type D?), then we may add a divisional attachment of enginners (ToO2?) and from that point we may decide (multiple choices method) the support elements of the core force that will be added in ToO 3,4 & 5.
We should also try to think which ToO (4-7) will be qualified as the one for the addition of the transportable elements of the Cav Div (troops+Helos platoon). From a given point the existence of a couple of platoon (H) won't matter since the missions will include enough AA cover for the NVA.
Also in the final couple of historical ToOs the battles will include a lot of units (huge scenarios/maps) and Air transportation will be included in the scenario analysis.

So, what should we use as the starting element of our core force? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

cheers,

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Ok,
Here are some not "air-lifted" elements of the 1st CAV DIV:

1st Squadron, 9th Cavalry (Air)
11th Pathfinder Company (Provisional)
Company E, 52nd Infantry (Long Range Recon)
Company H, 75th Infantry (Ranger)
Division Support
1st Personnel Service Battalion
8th Engineer Battalion

To any of the above units we may add a CH-47 Chinook after the ToO3 (?)

So, in order to make some infantry vs infantry scenarios we may start (ToO 1 & 2) with a force consisting from Company E, 52nd Infantry (Long Range Recon) or Company H, 75th Infantry (Ranger) or 8th Engineer Battalion
Then at ToO3 we can add a CH-47 Chinook and give to these units the airmobility.

Another possibility would be to start with the classical composition of the D troops and making special scenarios buy "playing with the weight" of the transportable objective (very heavy to be transportable by the core Helos; need AUX reinforcement http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

BTW, I think this is our target core force (TroopD):

D. Troop makeup
1. Hq section
2. Aero Scout Platoon (War Wagons)
3. Aero Weapons Platoon (Crusaders)
4. Aero Lift Platoon (Longknives)
5. Aero Rifle Platoon (Doughboys)
6. Maintenance Platoon (Scavengers)

to the above we should add divisional attachments of any type.

Also take notice of the following:

D Troop, 3/5th Air Cavalry
Submitted by Don Armstrong

I. Introduction

The purpose, operation, mission, composition, and a typical day's operation of D troop 3/5 Cav.

II. Mission

To extend by aerial means the reconnaissance and security capabilities of the ground units. To engage in offensive defensive, or delaying actions within its capability and to seize and dominate lightly defended areas or terrain features. * (note: real mission was to search and destroy.)

III. Composition

A. TOE Authorized
1. 216 enlisted men
2. 14 officers
3. 36 warrant officers

B. TOE Actual
1. 221 enlisted
2. 18 officers
3. 29 warrant officers

C. Aircraft
1. 8 UH-1H lift ships
2. 10 OH6 scout ships
3. 9 AH-1G cobras

D. Troop makeup
1. Hq section
2. Aero Scout Platoon (War Wagons)
3. Aero Weapons Platoon (Crusaders)
4. Aero Lift Platoon (Longknives)
5. Aero Rifle Platoon (Doughboys)
6. Maintenance Platoon (Scavengers)

IV. Platoon Makeup & Tactics

1. Scout Platoon (Warwagons)

A. 2 Sections
(1) 2 teams each section
(2) 2 ships each team

B. OH6 Armament
(1) M60 on bunji cord-operated by door gunner
(2) 4000 rounds per minute mini gun operated by pilot
(3) 40 lbs of explosives
(a) frags
(b) CS gas
(c) smoke
(d) baby bombs-also known as W.W.A.S. (Warwagon air assault)
[1] 1 lb tnt 2 lbs C4
[2] 1 lb C4 a can of transmission fluid.

C. Tactics:

The scouts are given an area to work by the C & C (command and control) A/C. Only 1 team will work an area at any one time. They move into an area at tree top level and check any suspicious areas thoroughly. Some of the things the scout looks for are fresh trails, military clothing and equipment, fresh activity in abandoned areas and suspicious military age males. To help the scout to perform his mission of finding and killing VC, he uses a variety of armament which are utilized to blow bunkers, clear underbrush and kill VC. The lead scout is the one that does most of the work. The trail scout ship is closely behind the lead to give him cover at all times, and in case the lead is shot down the trail ship will be right there to pick up the downed crew. Some of the other function of the scout team was to screen for troops moving into an area, giving them constant air cover. Also, the scouts will pick out a suitable LZ for lift ships to insert troops.

2. Aero Weapons Platoon (Crusaders)

A. 2 sections
(1) 2 teams to each section
(2) 2 ships to each team

B. AH-1G armament
(1) 2-M59 Rocket Pods holding 19 rockets
(2) 2-M27 Rocket Pods holding 7 rockets
(3) 1 XM-28 turrent
(a) 1 mini gun- 1500 RPM, or 4,000 RPM
(b) 40 mm - 340 RPM
(c) or any combination of the above

C. Tactics
(1) The cobra is a vital part of the Aero weapons platoon. The aircraft commander is in charge of the aircraft and sits in the rear seat and controls the firing of the rockets. The gunner (also a lot) pilot control the firing of the turret and sits up front. He can also fly from the front seat to relieve the pilot.

(2) As with the scouts, the cobras only have 1 team on station at any one time (usually). The cobras cover the scouts in the A/O (area of operation) and usually orbit around them about 1200 feet. Anytime the scouts call "taking fire", the lead cobra automatically rolls in to cover the scouts exit out of the area. While the lead cobra is rolling in the gunner in the front seat is already putting down a heavy volume of mini gun fire into the area the scouts received fire. When the lead ship is in position he fires rockets into the area. Also at this time the trail cobra is putting rockets into the area to cover the leads break and to keep constant fire in the area. By the time the trail ship is ready to break the lead cobra has already gained altitude and is ready cover the trails break.

This cycle can continue until the cobras feel it's safe for the scouts to return or until the target is destroyed. Some of the other functions of the cobras is to cover the lift ships on insertions and extractions, and to destroy targets given to them by either the scouts or the ground troops. The cobras can provide close support to the ground commander.

3. Lift Platoon (Longknives)

A. UH-1H
2 sections with 7 ships for each section

B. Lift

UH-H (Huey) carries 2 M60 machine guns, troop capacity 8 U.S. or 10 ARVN

C. Tactics

The lift platoon uses 4 A/C to carry troops. They usually will fly a staggered formation or trail formation. The main purpose of the lift platoon is to insert and extract troops into the LZ. The lift ships are usually staged out of a staging area which is usually a base camp close to the AO. Another function of the lift ships is to be used as a medevac, or ash and trash missions.

4. The Aero Rifle Platoon (Doughboys)

A. 4 squads - 40 men (10 men each squad)

B. Armament
(1) 8 45 cal pistols
(2) 8 M-79's
(3) 32 M-16 rifles

C. Tactics

The Doughboys are equipped and trained to be ground pounders. Their main purpose is to give a ground reconnaissance of areas that the scout ships cannot check out by air. They are strictly a recon element. They are not a main fighting force and only about 32 soldiers are inserted at any one time. They can handle small numbers of VC. Anything of a larger size would have to be dealt with by a regular infantry company which would be brought in by an Assault Helicopter Company. Another function of the Doughboys (outside of details) is to secure any of our downed aircraft until it can be extracted.

5. Maintenance Platoon (Scavengers)

A. 4 sections and a platoon Hq
(1) A/C maint section
(a) Cobra maint team
(b) Huey maint team
(c) LOH maint team


(2) Allied Shops section
(a) engine shop
(b) prop and rotor shop
(c) sheet metal shop
(d) electrical shop
(e) avionics shop


(3) Armament Section
(a) Cobra armament
(b) LOH armament

(4) Tec supply section
PLL

B. Mission
To maintain and repair our A/C. 110 soldiers sometimes working 24 hours a day.

cheers,

p.s What is your opinion; SHOULD we start with "air-lifted troops from the beggining or should we add them in ToO2-3 ? (you must take into consideration that it would be nice to have some scenarios with only foot soldiers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif , this is the reason (designing issue) why I am not sure if it is wise to use from ToO1 the air-lifted troops.
This is also the reason why I suggested to use in ToO1 the special forces platoon to defend the "SP" Base (historically correct - ranger attachment (?)

What is your opinion? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

One possibility could be to use, apart from the HQ, AUX units for the first few scenarios if the intention is to assume the role of an advisor or special forces group...???

However, I haven't quite got it straight yet if the core forces is meant to be drawn from the entire 1 Cav Div or a particular Bn within the division...?


An observation on helicopters I've made through PBEM is that they are highly popular with new players, particulary the Russian players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif, and while it's easy to clobber the AI with air assaults few seem to master the art against a human opponent - I have yet to see a successful helicopter air assault carried out against a human opponent. Seasoned PBEM gamers do not seem to favour the helicopter assault to the same degree...

For reasons of attraction to the campaign I don't think helicopters are a drawback (everyone loves the chopper, right!?), it's the Air Cav after all..., from a designing point of view though I'm in favour of a few "non-helicopter scenarios"...

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Ok then,
Here is a very early proposal to use as a base of further discussions:
(1 UH-1d Huey has lift capacity 12...)


ToO No1: 1x AirCav Pl(M):
4x Airmobile rifle
2x recoilles rifle
or
ToO No1: 1x Rifle Platoon:
Rifle squad
3xinfantry
1xInfAT
1xMachinegun

ToO No2: Choice 2xUH-1b gunship(or AirCav Spt (M)) & 2xOH-13 or 105mm platoon


ToO No3: additional 1x AirCav Pl(M):
4x Airmobile rifle
2x recoilles rifle
or
ToO No3: 1x Rifle Platoon:
Rifle squad
3xinfantry
1xInfAT
1xMachinegun

ToO No4: Choice 105mm platoon or 1x AirCav Lift (5x UH-1D Huey)

ToO No5: Choice 155mm platoon or Strike element & AirCav Spt(M)

ToO No6 ...
ToO No7...
etc...

p.s Up to ToO No3 we will provide airlift as aux and we may design specific missions.
p.s At ToO no4 the player may choose to add an Airlift platoon.
p.s By "choice" the player may select his next core force addition by the mechanism of the 1-turn scenario.
What do you think?

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

My understanding is that the M72's where genraly dropped due to weight. and I've not heard of the Aircav taking RCL's or baazokas.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Listy,

We have to use what the stock OOB provides us...

If we reject the (US OoB) AirCav Pl(M)(4x Airmobile rifle, 2x recoilles rifle);
is the (US OoB) Rifle Platoon (1x Rifle squad, 3x infantry, 1x InfAT/flamethrower?, 1x Machinegun)
a better choice?

If not what do you propose?

p.s I don't think that the cavalry scouts are good enough for infantry combat...

cheers,

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Just to make sure, does this in practice mean that the player will get a different amount of build points to expand his core with or...?

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Hi Ulf,

Actually NO,

Because the amount of points between the multiple choices will be in balance.
Also don't forget that the adjustable difficulty will "slow down" or "help" the evolution of the player's core force, so in fact we don't have to be so concerned about his choices!
The advantage with the "multiple-choices build up" of the core force army will be the replay-ability of the campaign and the if you combine this with the "adjustable difficulty" and the "random renforcement designing technique", then we will have a very strong campaign "package". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

p.s IMO the adjustable difficulty may even allow a free/open core force but this is another story... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

p.s What do you propose for the ToO No1 starting core force?

cheers,
Pyros

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

What if we just create a custom one by editing a Rifle Platoon and reducing their numbers to allow for the air transport?

Using Cav Scouts even though not as heavily armed as Riflemen might not be bad as long as they have adequate support. IMHO isn't this what US forces usually had anyway. Add enough Air or Artuy support to tip the balance in their favor or to at least prevent them from taking heavy losses (unless they screw up of course).

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

So, here some units that may be suitable:


September 1965

USMC

(203)Recon team (327,328,329,330) 216 points
(93) Rifle platoon (760,440,309) 105 points


USA

(750) MG section (493) 15 points
(200) Rifle PL VN (432,422,415) 45 points
(255) Aircav PL (M) (378,778) 78 points
(86) Patrol (215) 36 points


This is a rough list of the unit in the official OOB that may be suitable for the core army.


Davide

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Ok, that's good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Hi DD,

The problem with the campaign mechanism is that even if we modify (D key) the initial core forces (weapons etc) the program will reset these modifications (in the next scenario)...

But, what about a rifle platoon with a lift platoon ? IMO this infantry should be good for ground combat.
Concerning the cavalry scouts, I think these units (4 men!) are not good for any type of combat; just for recon...

Anyway, it would be great if anyone can present a proposal for core units up to ToO No5... or it would be useful to propose modifications to the one I posted.

ToO No1: 1x Rifle Platoon:
Rifle squad
3xinfantry
1xInfAT
1xMachinegun

ToO No2: Choice 2xUH-1b gunship(or AirCav Spt (M)) & 2xOH-13 or 105mm platoon


ToO No3: 1x Rifle Platoon:
Rifle squad
3xinfantry
1xInfAT/flamethrower?
1xMachinegun

ToO No4: Choice 105mm platoon or 1x AirCav Lift (5x UH-1D Huey)

ToO No5: Choice 155mm platoon or Strike element & AirCav Spt(M)

ToO No6 ...

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

looking around, as otehrs ahve said: the Aircav Platoon (M), what ever that stands for, is probaly the closest you'll get to a normal Aircav platoon.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

What about this starting core force?


<font color="red"> (255) Aircav platoon X 2

(378) Airmobile squad X 3
(778) 90mm (HE) X 1 </font>



<font color="green"> (86) Patrol

(213) Scout X 3 </font>


<font color="blue"> (213) Heavy MG

(93) 50 cal X 1 </font>


(280) Pioneer platoon

(447) Pioneers X 2


With these units you have mobility, flexibility, firepower and sneaking ability.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

I imagine that the 1st mission the core group will "play", will be a security mission along highway 19 or a search and destroy mission, and the big battle of the first ToO will be the Ia Drang fierce fight... is this right?


Davide


Edited: I got it from another thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Boonierat write this:


Steming the NVA: The Ia Drang valley Campaign Sep-Dec. 1965 (ToO#1)

Chapter 1, A New Home: the 1st Cav arrives at An Khe
Here we can have some shake down operations to get the player accustomed to his units, for example:
Op. Op.Good Friend II/Sayonara (joint Army/USMC/ROK road security along Route 19 from Qui Nonh to Binh Khe)
Op.Happy Valley I &amp; II (pacification in Vinh Thanh Valley)
Op.Lonesome End (security of the famous Mang Yang Pass)

Chapter 2, Plei Me under Siege: Send in the First Team
Here the serious business begins, the Cav must relieve a besieged SF camp and pursue the retreating NVAs:
Op. All the Way with a battle for an NVA field Hospital, an ambush near cambodian border, an battle for a hot LZ etc...

Chapter 3, Cavalry Pursuit: Breaking the NVA
Here are the famous battles of the campaign with terrible fightings for LZ X-Ray, Albany and Columbus.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

That's my idea too, progresively raise the tempo of the operations and the intensity of the fightings. We should be carefull with the battles of X-Ray or Albany though, it could really cripple the core force if not balanced properly.

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

Yep! If the battle at LZ X-Ray is to be taken into consideration, maybe will be better if our core force will be landing in the second day of the Ia Drang valley battle, and used to scout the rear that was less involved in the battle, after all this is still the beginning of the campaign.... but this is only my opinion...


Davide

Re: Cross Link Scenarios: Timeline/Core army evolu
 

I like this idea. IMHO its better for us to avoid trying to replicate a very well know action. We should stick to the the goings on in the fringes of these major engagements. This will prevent the grognards from crying about how un-historical or inaccurate a partcicular scenario is.