Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

Not a chance

I could hand that list to 100 people to adjust and get back 100 different lists and I have no time for endless debate...with the keyword being "endless" and the other being "no time" I'm already working every day just trying to get done the things I want to get done.

The game allows players to adjust either side to suit themselves we provide the "guidelines" for experience and morale from a variety of sources and ways which I can assure you no one will EVER get a consensus on. We knew that when we started and it's still true today

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

I won't get into details about the military operations in Cyprus, but the whole situation during July-August 1974 was less of a fine demonstration by the Turks and more of a case of "the one who did the least mistakes won".

And there's no comparison with ODS. For one, the Cypriot National Guard did not fall that quickly, or in a bloodless matter.

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

But they also made a number of errors, including failure in briging armour to contain the beachhead, inability to deploy artillery quick enough to contain the landing etc.

Needless to say opening moves of that war are on my scenario list, I will go as detailed as I can and you will see by yourself :P

And BTW, war is about making less mistakes rather than being strategic genius. Sun Tsu points it out all the time in his work and life teaches us that whoever disagrees with him... usually dies :P

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

What I find more interesting than the capabilities of the Turkish army (talking about the game only), is the relatively easy destruction/heavy damage on modern MBTs by a less than proper full conventional army.
What would the results be (in terms of tank losses) if they were fighting an organized (ie state) defenses? If MBTs are so easily destroyed on open ground by light forces, imagine if the opposing force had a regular army. Very interesting.

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

First off, the 2A4 is not really "modern" .......that tank was 5+ years old when SP2 was released 20 years ago

Two, they are fighting an enemy they cannot deal with in full on conventional warfare terms.... they cannot pacify the area with artillery first and it would appear they don't have enough infantry to keep them safe and it appears they underestimated ISIS ATGM capability.......and it's not a long stretch to see that there are propaganda points to be made when Russian ATGM take out what people are acting like are front line Western tanks...they aren't, they are over 1/4 century old. Nobody batted an eye when ISIS takes out a T-55 or T-72 with an ATGM ...Russian weapons on Russian equipment.... but are with a 25 year old Leo. That tank was designed to defend a 1980's style armoured assult..not wander around in the kind of battlefield in northern Syria and virtually everything is vulnerable to a side shot

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

I seem to recall a famous quote to the effect of "making less mistakes then your enemy" :p

As to the Leo ... every time anything happens you always get someone claiming "The End is Near"! I seem to recall the USA totally gutting it's entire military except the newly independent Air Force because nuclear bombs made everything else obsolete. So excuse me if I have a private chuckle at the doomsayers.

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

Saudi Leclerc's don't seem to be fairing to badly, interestingly just tried having a quick look for them & the dessert warrior in the OOB & could not find, think I have default OOB.

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

Leclercs are in "Gulf states" along with the Warrior as UAE is part of the "Gulf States" OOB. There is talk the Saudis are interested but nothing to say they have any

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

It's been proven Leopard's greatest weakness is when facing hand combat

Source:

https://youtu.be/nPMi136tURg?t=21

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

I don't think you'll have to worry about LeClerc's in Saudi Arabia our Senate just this past Aug/Sep approved a Saudi arms request for $1.15 Billion. This deal includes 150 M1A1/M1A2S (These are apparently on par with our M1A2 SEP V2.) ABRAMS to include an additional, I believe ~10-20 M88 Recovery tanks.
http://www.bahraindefence.com/indust...audi-tank-deal

These tanks probably will replace around the 20 M1A1 ABRAM's lost in combat in Yemen in the last 1.5 years. Also it is believed these tanks will start to replace the around 450+ M60A3 PATTON tanks.

And to stay on topic...
You might find the PROTECTION section of the next very useful.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

Regards,
Pat
:capt: