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-   -   Infantry Served Weapons and Organization. (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=48326)

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 5th, 2012 02:45 PM

Sometimes I come across improvements to weapons such as rifle scopes etc, mod changes to weapons, new weapons and organizational changes to a countries infantry makeup such as the one posted Pg. 8 Post #77 in the Jets & Planes Thread concerning Australia's BEERSHEBA Program. Some of these might be useful to you game design folks, others for possible inclusion into the game if warranted based on the information given in general and others will now be included on my Patch Page as well of which I already have my first one for next year. Though my dad served in the USA from 1941 to 1969 and was everywhere the USA was "active" from Italy, Austria, Korea to the NAM and never really much talked about those "exotic" places I'll never fully understand the "ground pounder" mentality, though some would say "bubble-heads" are just mental. Anyway I have a better understanding of things that go clank, boom, swish, and whump. So I leave it to those that are or were to decide the usefulness of this information that reside in our WinSPMBT/WinSPWW2 world.

First up is the Russian formally known as the AK-200, now the AK-12. The AK-12 was designed for the export market but now with a significant increase in defence spending over the next few years the Russian military/police is currently evaluating it for the army. Besides the standard ability to shoot the "other guys" ammo apparently it'll be able to mount their grenade launchers as well.

The USA to withdraw two BCTs over the next two years from Europe.

Mr. Carl-Gustaf M3 joins the USA for the first time.


DRG February 5th, 2012 03:50 PM

Re: Infantry Served Weapons and Organization.
From the way that is written it implies this is the first time ANY Carl-Gustaf has been used by US forces.


This marks the first time the Army has bought the 84mm recoilless rifle system.
Do you read it that way or just for the M3 system because if this is the FIRST time any version of the CG has been used by US forces I have a bit of adjusting to do in the US OOB.


FASTBOAT TOUGH February 5th, 2012 05:05 PM

Re: Infantry Served Weapons and Organization.
Don and others,
It is to replace the AT-4/M136 currently used by SOCOM (Except SEALS.) and regular USA units. However the Carl-Gustaf M3 RANGER has already been in use exclusively with some US Special Operations (SEALS) and Ranger units only to date. Used most notably in Afghanistan with the use of the HEDP round. USA regular units might also use the ADM flechette round as well. The 3rd ref. gives 1990 as the date of fielding with the Rangers which seems early by a year as I believe the M3 did not become available until 1991 and is supported by ref. 4 last month from army.mil as to when it fielded as well.


Suhiir February 5th, 2012 06:20 PM

Re: Infantry Served Weapons and Organization.
The USMC experimented with the Carl-Gustaf in the 80's before it was decided to go with the SMAW.
No doubt a Made in the U.S.A. weapon got far more support from whatever congressman's district it's made in then any furrin weapon could hope for.

FASTBOAT TOUGH February 6th, 2012 01:53 AM

Re: Infantry Served Weapons and Organization.
The break down of the refs. seems to be in order. But for the first date a caveat will be brought up to "muddy the waters" because of the use of the terms like "it has been in the inventory since 1989" or 1990 pick one, what you expected this to be easy? Hardly is around here at times.

1. USA Rangers JAN. 1991 soonest however; Para 10 of the again posted ref. below indicated the USA found flaws with the fatigue data from the manufacturer and ordered further tests in the States and Sweden, if this is taken into account, would the units on hand be kept in storage or remain in the field? If pulled from the field then JAN. 1994 makes more sense. Only 50-75 or so tubes were availble for use and apparently only used by the Rangers for SpecOps.

2. USN SEALS JAN. 1997. SOLID. The rest of SOCOM units there is no date except for #3 below.

3. USA Regular and rest of SOCOM units JAN. 2012. SOLID.

Current rounds used are the HEDP and HE (50M-75M blast radius.) ones only at this time.

And this started as just a general purpose article! :doh: with a hardy
:banghead ! The price of posting. ;)

Back to the MARX brothers, Horse Feathers!


FASTBOAT TOUGH February 8th, 2012 04:26 AM

Re: Infantry Served Weapons and Organization.
Did you ever wonder how many 50 cal. rounds it would take to penetrate eight inches of concrete or take out a log emplacement? Or how to fire a TOW safely from inside a building? Well the USA has tested it all to include the use of these and other weapons in an urban environment etc. The easy reading is over for today and you and some of you game designers might just go...HMmm. Or not!?! Anyway good info here for all with lots of tables to correlate the data with, class is now in session.


Suhiir February 8th, 2012 01:57 PM

Re: Infantry Served Weapons and Organization.
I did see a Dragon gunner once do a top attack on a range by firing over a building then yanking the launcher down at the last moment causing the missile to dive.

Amazing some of the stuff a person that REALLY has a feel for their weapon can do at times.

Mobhack February 8th, 2012 02:18 PM

Re: Infantry Served Weapons and Organization.
1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Suhiir (Post 794879)
I did see a Dragon gunner once do a top attack on a range by firing over a building then yanking the launcher down at the last moment causing the missile to dive.

Amazing some of the stuff a person that REALLY has a feel for their weapon can do at times.

Ah! - Dragon gets you noticed (and not in a good way :))!


FASTBOAT TOUGH February 12th, 2015 01:52 PM

Re: Infantry Served Weapons and Organization.
Well again this not an area I normally delve into though I have a couple of items that would require more time then what I have now from the ATGM world. One is easy just a matter of transferring an item from one OOB to the next. The next is Russia has made it's long awaited decision on which new assault rifle it's troops will get, that's more for FYI purposes I would think. So with this offering in the normal format, we'll see what happens...

A1. UKRAINE/ADD/JAN 2015/BARRETT MK 82 A3 SASR w/TI/GSR and w/o TI/GSR all Scoped/USE USA UNITS 252 and 250 for raw data/C2 (Spotter) and C1 .// Ukraine is reported to have bought at least 400 units of this rifle with no other variant mentioned. These rifles are for use by their special forces and regular military units. Unless there is time, recommend just putting them in with the Sniper "section" your call if taken for action. I've got both Russian (Sputnik the former RIA Novosti) and Ukrainian sources and more familiar ones. I put credence to their presence based on Sputniks reporting because this is the first news stop in Russian sourcing on military matters.

Again Russia selects it's new assault rifle.

Thank You for your consideration.

Time to get ready...have a great day!


dmnt February 14th, 2015 05:01 PM

Re: Infantry Served Weapons and Organization.
Finland picks M72A4 LAW replacement... M72E9 LAW. Local designation 66 KES 12, also fielded M72A6, local designation 66 KES 12 RAK. Both are license built by Nammo. Material was received in early 2013 and training started in 2014.
Ruotuväki conscript magazine, p. 12

FDF info (in Finnish)

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