T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

Are you sure that BMP Armata armor stats are correct?

I know from all the available sources that BMP and T14 have the same chassis and addon armor packages, active and passive, so same protection value, and in the game it's not.

In addiction to this, according to the available photos, T14 and T15 have not only front ERA but Side and Top ( and in the game T14 has only front, and T15 front and side).

So, we can talk about T-14 protection, but T15 BMP is heavily underprotected in the game, at least in hull stats (I think turret is fine).

T15 is less protected than BMPT Ramka tank support vehicle!!

I suggest a modified OOB until next patch.

Thank you for the attention.

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/armata.htm


http://www.military-today.com/apc/armata_heavy_ifv.htm


http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi..._pictures.html

http://defense-update.com/20150509_t..._analysis.html

https://rg.ru/2015/05/05/armata-site.html

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

There have already been some adjustments in the master OOB's for these vehicles but I am not spending any more time on them during the summer months. Once we get into October I will have another look at what we have that was based on early and very sketchy information .

If you don't like what you see, MOBHack is provided to allow your own changes to be made .I have no intention of issuing corrected OOB's mid year for one vehicle type.

Don

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

I asked a current British Tank officer about these Russian vehicles, specifically, "How many do you think the Russians will actually have in service by 2018?"
His reply was, "Very few to not many, but they have a lot of earlier stuff."

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

That's usually the case with Russian armor.
They have so much of it compared to anyone else yet don't really have the capability to mass produce it.

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

Modern Russian army has actually fewer operational tanks than the US Army.

Note, operational, not by counting every tank in every military depot in the whole country.

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

I'm going to off topic a bit......I'm looking for photos to replace the generic radio for Russian HQ's. I have one suitable for 1978 onward but need one from the late 40;s to late 50's and one from the 60's or 70's and I'm hitting a google wall using English.......needs to be officers looking at maps or on radios.....officers doing things commanders do in the field

Links are fine

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

I don't know how useful this photos is:

https://anapophist.files.wordpress.c...post.jpg?w=750

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

At the risk of you already having these.

Cold War published 1963:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...pscdruwuqw.jpg

1940-49:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...psdmzh1qui.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps6vnsx3qb.jpg

Unknown Cold War:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...psikettxgs.jpg

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

Yeah that's the one I've already got

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

The best estimate I have found from open sources in the English language are from an English language edition of Russia Beyond the Headlines online publication found here.

In the article, T-14 Armata production is reported as follows: "The Armata will go into mass production in 2017-2018 and Russia’s armed forces will receive 2,300 T-14 tanks by 2020." It may not be much of a stretch to extrapolate that T-15 production would mirror that of the T-14 as they share common chassis, hull, and power plant.

I doubt Russia would put a handful of T-14/T-15's into a foray into Estonia, so if she has them, I do not think they are in sufficient quantities to warrant putting them in the game. However, it would be interesting to do so, as I understand the T-15's are to keep pace with the T-14 so as to provide infantry support where needed; thereby, making for an interesting scenario. Alternately, I imagine T-15's riding shot gun with the current front line T-90, if Russia had the quantity, but certainly we could put a few in the game.


The National Interest is running with this headline: "Russia's T-15 Armata: Moscow's Fighting Vehicle of the Future?" So, we may infer, it is projected, at least by the National Interest staff, the vehicle is not "ready for prime time." It ain't Deion Sanders just yet.

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Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

That's a lofty goal for that many tanks in a two year span. This next quotes the Deputy Defense Minster as saying..."Borisov also announced that the initial plan of inducting 2,300 T-14 MBTs by 2020 had to be pushed back to 2025." At 8 million U.S. that's a huge chuck out of the Defense budget when you consider ALL the new and modified pieces of equipment are expected to be online during the same time period.
http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/russi...-battle-tanks/

Tank Plants in Russia now...
http://uralvagonzavod.com/products/special_products/
https://sputniknews.com/military/201...ourism-launch/

Used to manufacture tanks in WWII and early post war period.
http://kzgroup.ru/eng/

I believe there were four plants through the Cold War the two listed above and the two in what's now the Ukraine. Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it! ;)
http://www.malyshevplant.com/en/cont...mored-vehicles
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/

Export and Defense coordination companies...
Russia: http://www.roe.ru/eng/catalog/land-forces/
Ukraine: http://ukroboronprom.com.ua/en/category/struktura

One factory, so many expectations. I'll just wait and see what happens with all this.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

Regarding the price of the T-14 at 8 mil USD, RBTH is reporting: "The price of the latest Russian Armata T-14 tank will be just 250 million rubles (3.7 million dollars) once it goes into mass production, according to Oleg Siyenko, CEO of Uralvagonzavod, the manufacturer of the tank." We may expect the unit price of the T-15 to be comparable.

But, what I would be concerned about here and now, is not when Russia would build 2300 tanks, but when could she field a regiment of the T-14/15's. Is it possible for the uralvangonzavod plant to produce 24 T-12/15's a month?

Really, what I am getting at, is what is reasonable, for game purposes, to start wargaming with a battalion of T-15's supporting the T-14 or the T-90 that is currently in service?

Well, I should have simply checked the Russian OOB, I see the T-14 is available in 2018 and the T-15 or "BMP Armata" in 2019.

I'm taking from your signature: "If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." Sir Nicholas Winton.

Thanks for getting back with the information, I do appreciate what you bring to the game.

Run silent, Run Deep! Or, "...return to the Bungo Straits and sink Bungo Pete"

Question: Did you have an occasion to meet Cpt Beach?

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Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

Shahadi,
1) In fairness I guess I could've posted the rest of that para from my ref. But I leave it that way as the "hook' to encourage people to just plain take the time to read the article if interested in the topic. We make our lives so busy (And that's somewhat a time management issue to me.) with our electronics it's crazy. I retired my cell phone when I retired from the USN. Anyway my ref. from the last agrees with yours concerning the mass production price of ~3.8 million per unit.
They are paying the 8 million per now (Estimates range for the first 200 - 400 units) and that price won't drop until the official mass production order is placed. But this is normal in the defense industry and is referred to as an "offset" this protects the equipment manufacturer (And Governments) from the order being canceled and or any development issues that come along to minimize the companies exposure or if you want instead it's losses in development etc. I see this all the with MEADS, India and the F-35, ICO the F-35 someone is making claims they're responsible for the recent price reduction, not true...
A) The offsets were reduced a couple of years ago by the USAF shifting the greater "burden" of the offsets back to Lockheed Martin to minimize in this case the governments side of offsets, India again, so yes it's a "two way street" and at times one requiring renegotiation.

B) The production orders where increased late last summer by the USAF when the new Defense budget was submitted and approved for FY 2017 in Oct. 2016. In everyday life isn't it more economical to buy something in bulk vice just by the handful? I believe the saying is "They're cheaper by the dozen."

2) A) They should have around 200 tanks available by time they go into mass production as long the developmental and evaluation phases don't shift to the right. Given the 5 year plan, just with the T-14 ARMATA they'll be looking at 34 tanks a month. Some programs will have to slow down or be put on the back burner. Not all of the first 200 tanks will be combat ready to the final mass production standard chosen by the Russian Army. But I believe of those they should be able to field a regiments worth. That being said, as you mentioned and Don and I have compared notes on this in the past for pilot training as well, that I feel in my opinion, due to the "expected" advanced nature of the T-14 ARMATA and possibly the T-15 IFV, I feel it'll take at least a year to properly train the crews to combat efficiency levels. Minimum 9 months. We know it's about 6-9 month's to fully train on the T-84 OPLOT-M depending on country user. But yes I can give you a baseline USA Basic crew training (And nowhere in the ref. does it say "Combat Training" is 15 weeks long or let's for the sake of simplicity say 4 months.
http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jo...r-crewman.html

3) I expect the dates to shift to the right at least a year maybe two. They have been having some technical issues and I believe a minor but, annoying engine problem which is being corrected. We'll tackle that issue as it arises.

4) Sir Nicholas Winton was a stranger to me somewhat until I saw a story a story on 60 Minutes about 3 yrs. ago. What he did when the government(s) refused to help him get those Jewish kids out of Europe, shows what can be done by any of us if we are willing to take the risk. I watch it everytime it comes on. The BBC did a show in his honor for what he did (And it was nice to see his wife was still alive to be there.) but, unknown to him were the survivors, their kids and grand-kids, amazing and I 'm not afraid to say "it gets me everytime.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-33350880
CINCLANTHOME and myself through close personal tragedy, have in the later years when I first used this signature can fully agree with this quote, "If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." If I may before I move on, from my last boat the USS NEBRASKA SSBN-739G FROM 9/30/92 - 10/7/98 on my plaque at the time of transfer are the words "Experience is not what happens to a man, it's what a man does does what happens to him." - Aldous Huxley, that's what I believe and has made me the person I try to be here, but more importantly to guide me as the person I am in my everyday life.

5) Captain Beach was an outstanding Submarine CO and awarded the Navy Cross for his service during WWII.
However, after this person personalized a book (Thunder Below) for me on the occasion of my retirement, I did on several occasions have the opportunity and privilege to have had at his "direction" several phone conversations with RADM Eugene Fluckey that was awarded the Medal of Honor and 4 Navy Crosses. He was "sharp as a tack" at 89 when I first called him to thank him for the way he personalized the book that made me feel more like one of his crew (And my wife.) then a perfect stranger that I was. I would call him at least a couple of times a year, I don't understand the "connection" it just was. I do know in passing he asked if I was available when he came to the base here for the naming of the Commander Submarine Group Ten (COMSUBGRU TEN) building was in his honor renamed FLUCKEY HALL. He knew from the book signing and phone conversations I was stationed there in the Operations Dept. on my "Twilight Tour", I was TAD to San Diego to SPAWARSYSCOM that week. It was ashamed he died from complications from Alzheimer's ironically on my 48th Birthday. I wouldn't find that out until I briefly spoke to his wife it was a sad sad day. Did you know for as long as he and his crew members were able to meet yearly (Once in awhile more often.) that if a former crew member and family from the USS BARB, (And we all have that one boat and you see mine on every post.) couldn't afford to attend a reunion, he paid their way to include even going on cruises for a reunion which happened over the years on several occasions? All the the proceeds from his book sales went to the cause as well as personal finances at times. I had that CO on that boat. And I would've like Capt. Tehan, have been honored to have served with Capt. Fluckey as well, and gone to "Hell and Back" you have to remember being on a submarine, we're a little closer to it. :p
http://usnhistory.navylive.dodlive.m...ugene-fluckey/

7. Finally (And Don is saying Thank God!!!) thank you for the kind words, It's been tough over the last couple of years and it's good to hear that once in awhile, especially now that I'm TRYING to "reignite the spark' and get back to business. The last thing I did, I believe, was the UK HORNET series of planes not because I found them because other people found similar issues and I was asked for whatever reason to look into. I was honored each and everytime, it reminded me, why I did and wanted to do the work and for whom. To those guys, again, you have my deepest appreciation. That's my favorite thing about being here.

Alright, again T-14 ARMATA nice MBT, we'll see it when we see it, and hopefully find out how good it really is.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

Allow me to fix that last quote...
"Experience is not what happens to a man, it's what a man does with what happens to him." - Aldous Huxley. Big clumsy fingers or if you will, :pc:!! Sorry.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

DRG is correct. However, you could make changes in the Editor, then clone for the same effect as a modified OOB. The changes in the Editor will stay for that scenario only, and the changes will persist when the scenario is published.

In my opinion, it is better, in most cases to make changes in the Editor rather than in MobHack. So, we have choices, and that is a very good thing.

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Re: T-14 and BMP Armata Stats
 

"When you're knocked down, get back up." That's what my old man used to say. Actually, that's the edited version. "When you knocked on your butt, get the hell back up and kick his butt. I ain't raising no punks," is what he really said.

Sometimes I'd hear that talk as soon as he got off the ship, before we could get to the house. Then he'd talk about his buddy who was Pacflt champ. We lived in navy housing and it was always the officer's boys against the enlisted kids. Always, even in the exchange.

"You've got to know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away, Know when to run." Kenny Rogers, "The Gambler."

I think it was reading your posts, that put in my head, to document, to back up what I'm saying. Thanks for your attention to detail. They say, "the devil's in the detail," and boy you flush him out every time.

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