Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

I like the idea of the Long Campaign, but I get stuck at force selection every single time. I have zero interest sifting through five pages of infantry.

Is there a default force selection, or does anyone have a save game handy? I'd like to play one of the major powers on either the Western or Eastern Fronts, maybe mid-war time period.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

firstly, set points preferences to a large number, so you wont run out of points in the campaign buy.

If you plan to fight with leg infantry (as most WW2 was fought) then setting map width to 80 is probably a good idea - that gives a map you can walk across in a reasonable time frame.


your HQ is auto-bought

Stage 1
- buy an arty FOO (having him here makes finding him easier on the HQ screens)
- buy an off-map field arty battery
- buy 2 AA platoons (guns or truck mounted)
- buy an armoured car, light tank or scout car platoon, or a truck/APC infantry platoon as your mobile recce and a mobile final reserve in the defence
- buy an AT gun platoon or 2 (with trucks or SP-ATG). Useful in both the attack and especially the defence.

Leave all of those as part of A (support weapons) company. As "loose" platoons, they are automatically assigned to A0's company.

There are usually 3 objective clusters in an SP game so:
Stage 2
buy 3 times:
- 1 leg rifle company (choose the one you like, if there is choice)
- 1 medium mortar section (if there is none built into the rifle coy)
- section of MGs ditto
- A scout section or inf-AT section as size 0 "close recce". Change 1 element to a sniper perhaps in a later battle.
Cross-attach these support sections to the relevant company HQ

Stage 3
After the 3 rifle company groups, buy:
- 1 medium tank company
- Perhaps a truck or APC grunt platoon as their escort, or if Soviet a tank rider desant group (cross attach it to the tank company HQ)

You now have a "standard" combined arms force for WW2, 3 infantry companies to 1 armoured. Some arty, some recce and some air defence. If you are a tankie, then you may want to reverse the buy to 3x tank coys team and 1x rifle coy team.

That will take you all of 10-15 minutes.

Or - as requested, here is a pre-baked LC starter, Slot 48 starting in 1943 and set for 30 battles. Soviet Guards Rifles core, battle 1 is a meeter versus Nationalist Spain. Ready for your deployment with supports bought, and the cross attaching of the mech platoon to the T34 coy is all you need to do (if so desired).

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

And here is a 1943 start pre-baked German LC, if you want to play the other side. Slot 42, ready for deployment with supports bought. (This time I remembered to cross attach the APC platoon to the tankies!:o)

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

USA in Tunisia, 1943 kick-off.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

UK 1943 LC, same parameters.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

If anyone likes the idea and wants a "tankie" core (3 tank coy and a rifle platoon basis) then I may well knock a few of those up for quick starts too.

Anyone wanting to post their experience of using the pre-baked samples - please post that AAR in a separate thread in the campaigns folder (and this post probably will get moved in there too)

cheers
Andy

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Hey thanks! And yes, please move the thread. I usually forget to check subforums in wargaming forums. I hope this is useful to others.

I tried out your German LC save. Holy cow, that's a lot of units! I'm coming from the tutorial and a few small infantry scenarios. :)

Will I still enjoy the long campaign if I decreased the points value and the size of my force? Maybe cut the map height down a few hexes too?

General suggestions on how to do so are welcome. I'd be happy to pick the units now that I have an example to work from. I just need an idea for a smaller force composition like your post above.

You can also talk me into sticking with this size force if that provides the best experience.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

If you would prefer a company size core force, like I do, first set the map to 20 high by 40 wide. Then pick your FO, then the leg company. Then a scout section, MG section, mortar section, AA section, and Inf-AT section if not included with the company. Then a tank or Stug section. If you want to simulate an armored unit, then take a tank platoon instead of the section. (two platoons for US and Russian).

I usually use support points for the off board artillery, and an engineer platoon if attacking. On defense use support points also for some AT guns and extra MG.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

If you plan on a leg infantry core, then 80x80 maps may be a better size for you.

Those cores are roughly battalion sized - 3 rifle coy, with an attached tank coy. The battalion is the basic unit, really.

If you really want a smaller core, then perhaps -

- HQ
- Observer
- a medium mortar section for him to play with
- an AA unit
- an A/T gun section of 2-3 items, towed or SP
- a scout section or scout car section

One rifle company + 1 tank platoon
(or one tank company + 1 mech platoon)

And go from there. i.e. the original SP size (was 24 or 48 units max in the core, been so long I have forgotten which).

A company team, in other words.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

The edit function does not seem to be working, so further to my above.

Remember that those forces are core plus the support for the battle. (Supports have s added to the ID in the HQ menus).

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Thanks guys. I took the plunge and made my own company-sized force. I learned a lot of German abbreviations tonight. :)

I might have to restart because I did the battle points preference incorrectly, according to the manual. I left it defaulted to 3000 but only spent 1000.

20x40 seems a little small for a company sized force. Is it going to be a bloodbath?

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

The points will be fine - remember that the AI buys in ratio to what your core(+support) is actually worth, since you are player #1 in the LC, so the "unspent" points don't go to the AI's credit. The AI is player #2 so his points are determined by your points value and the battle type.

Same with any support points offered in a battle in the long campaign - if you want a smaller game, then simply do not spend all the points offered. The unspent points will be ignored.

Thus the default points is simply set hight for the initial core buy so you do not run out of purchasing power in the initial buy. It's completely irrelevant what it is set at once the campaign is underway. As is the air strikes prefs settings in an LC (its determined by code in LCs). So the 2000 unused points you have are entirely irrelevant once the first buy is over - they are simply dropped on the cutting room floor.

AI P2 spend = ((P1 core's value) + P1 support points spent) * battle type multiplier

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

I would have thought that 80x80 (4000m frontage) would be way to much for a company. 20 hexes (1000m) is as low as the game will go and that is still on the high side for a company frontage I think.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

80x80 is what I tend to use for a leg infantry battalion sized force's campaign maps. For mech and armour, I stick with the default 100 wide by 80 to 100 tall.

40-60 tall, and 80 deep would do for a company of leg grunts in a campaign. you might concentrate yourself on a 20 hex wide corridor somewhere in the middle of that, but then you have flanks to cover - which is always more interesting, IMHO.

As you get 750 support points in a meeter, you'll have enough for a second support leg coy and some tanks too (if you use the buy points - remember that's not compulsory).

80 deep is enough to walk across in 25 or so turns, and leaves room for rear area troops like arty and mortars without these being too close that they get shot up by enemy direct fire weapons on open maps in decent visibility. Or overrun by tanks in turn 4 or so, if you left them unscreened.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Interesting and very useful info, usually I buy infantry and armor (including armored cars) first and then the support units like Arty, AT, Recon, etc.

I see that you do it that way so the first purchased units will be easier to locate on the HQ screen, is there any other reason?

On the other hand, what type of units I should not pick for my core?

Thanks in advance

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Personally I go rather light on the support, especially if I have a company size force. Much of the support I buy (fittingly) with support points, especially artillery and ammunition. That way you get the impression that the force has varying amounts of artillery support for example (as is realistic). I also try to stay away from extremely rare units, like 88mm gun portees or flame thrower tanks in my core force and buy these as support rarely.
I am under the impression that aa is rarely worth the points, certainly not as a core item. When you play against the Americans or early Germans it might be worth buying these as support though.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

I buy the "support company" items as a group, so they are together, as a support company grouping. (It would be a support platoon, if I was playing with a company sized core).

That way I have these key units to deploy first, as determined with my game planning. Not dotted randomly in between the line companies.

It's one of the irritating things about the game that later bought units cannot be "reshuffled" to align with company architecture. So I buy support co stuff first. naturally I'll end up with a few odds and ends at the end of the troop list once I buy a few extras over time, but mainly I tend to stick with the original battalion structure throughout the war. (Maybe if really bored some time, I will make a database reshuffling tool!:eek:)

I do find some core AAA units worthwhile, as it guards against the times one forgets to buy some (and get whacked by enemy air). They can always fight as great big machine guns if there is no enemy air threat. Or be converted later to more A/T or mortar units (as the Commonwealth did in Burma, historically. ATG and AAA units there were eventually also dual-equipped with 3in mortars as swing-role formations, mainly acting as mortars).

In a German campaign - core AT units can convert to SP-AAA later on when Allied air gets significant.

Having the flak elements have gained experience means that when converted to arty (in a non German core) they then have quicker response times. And any German anti tank converts to flak tend to be noticeably more effective since they usually have a sizeable kill total (and hence the experience gain for that) by the time they do switch roles.

The key arty unit is the FO though, so buy him in the initial buy and never risk him getting near fighting, or in places that the enemy will shell. As he gets experienced, the time to call reduces significantly. That FO experience adds to the experienced core arty troops quick response. So - losing my FO in a campaign is an utter disaster, and experienced mortar sections etc slightly less so.

Things not to have in a core would be helicopters (MBT), any more than a battery of off-map or on-map indirect howitzers per 3 line coys in the core. Engineer tanks and specialist flame tanks that were rare beasties. The German SP-88 on a truck (only 18 ever built, and really were meant to poke holes in the Maginot forts) or the British Churchill SPG which is so devastating in the Desert, but in reality stayed firmly at home, or the German experimental jobs like the SP 128mm. Paratroopers, Commandos, Brandenbergers, SAS and other stuff that only do specialist operations (unless playing a para-commando core force). More than a couple of ammo trucks (one per core arty battery maybe). More than 1 sniper per rifle company HQ, that sort of thing. I also avoid "romper stomper" cores such as converting every tank to a tiger or panther and so I stick to line German AFV such as the P4 and Hetzer, with only a platoon or so of "specials" - otherwise it's a boring walk-over.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Thanks a lot Andy! Fast and comprehensive as always. I have a couple of questions though about this info:

What type of units should I buy with my support points then? I usually get the arty, recon, etc with support points so they are always at the end of the list.

This reminded me of an issue I experienced on my last game: when using the N and P commands if the next unit is mounted the cursor hex is placed over the transport unit, but when the N command is used again then the cursor goes to the next unit on the transport formation.


That would be great!


I was in the belief that converted units start fresh and that experience was lost.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

I think they lose some experience, but not all.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

1) The support points are there to buy what you think you need for the mission offered. You can buy anything with these.

Typically in an assault, you would buy loads of arty and some engineers. Barge carriers in a river crossing. Transport planes to jump out of.

But if you think you'll need some AAA because you have zero air, the visibility is fine, and its the 44 USA across the table - buy that.

If you think the map is close (loads of city, woods etc) and you are short on grunts - buy a leg co in support. Maybe 2. Maybe Soviet SMG companies, if it is Stalingrad or Berlin...

In winter, ski troops come in handy. Most folks don't have those in the core since they are wasted points most of the year. My skiers are support extras.

If you are delaying or defending then you may want to buy some extra anti-tank guns or bazooka teams. If defending - some bunkers may be useful.

If you are advancing, you may want to buy some little scout cars, cavalry, motorcyclists or other recce troops to scout out the enemy. If you are a leg-based force, you may decide that for this particular battle a company of trucks to shuttle them forwards as your taxi service may be a good idea.

Ammo bunkers are extremely expensive - but survive well. If in a core they will be gaining experience which increases their core value, but other than the crew getting out and into a pistol fight - of nil practical use. So the longer you have them, the more buy points the enemy gets as they become more valuable through experience gain. So ammo bunkers (and other ammo units) are something to avoid or minimise in the core - and buy with support points. Unarmed trucks perhaps similar - experience gets them very little other than better morale (if they survive) and if you need them, support points is probably the best place, bar your dedicated AT gun towers.

If you are armour-light then some maps may scream at you that some tanks may be a good thing here. Like pancake flat steppe perhaps. A couple of KV-1 can make all the difference to a rifle battalion core with maybe a few T-26 in their golf bag.

It's entirely up to you what you buy with support points, based on your battlefield analysis and what your core consists of.

Of course - if you spend on support troops, then the AI gets more points in proportion to the battle type. So if you think your core is 100% up for the job, you may want to skip the extra spend. Any support points not spent don't matter (unless you are player #2 of course, since #1 has bought already - so in a 2 player campaign if you have 1200 support points as the second player - then use them!).

2) It would help - but be complicated.

3) Destroyed units with no survivors start as fresh - they were wiped out. Anything with experience gained and 1 crew left alive only loses 5 or so points for buying a new ride (so don't swap units every battle - upgradeitis means never learning your new toy!). However - converting something to a completely different type is less good. A tank to an SP Howitzer, say. The tank leader has armour leadership built up - but an SP arty piece wants arty command to do well.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Oh - the other thing about having a core off-map arty unit is that after they have gained much experience they become ace counter-battery boys.

My core arty battery if provided with a decent-ranged piece will often stay silent in reserve waiting to splat enemy off map firers for most of the battle. I only plot them for on-map fires when the enemy off-map dies down, or if I spot a concentration of on-map arty that needs immediate attention, like Katyushas.

Once they have got up to about 80+ experience and 10+ kills, its a nice little specialisation for them. Remember that in war, 50% or more of all the arty's fire missions were counter-battery fires.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Thanks Andy! Very useful information indeed, it has changed my view of how my battalion should be organized. Though a couple of questions arose though regarding the info you just posted:

Why in a "non" german core? are things working differently if the units belong to a german core?


You mean they loose experience points?

Does it works the same way when they only change to a new ride?

Thanks in advance

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Q1) In a German core, you may well be wanting to turn core ATG into AAA of some sort late war as the air gets black with Allied planes...

In an Allied core, AAA is only useful early/mid war, so is best turned to more arty or SP-AT etc, come the later war.

Q2) Dead units will be refreshed with a leader straight from the replacement pool at basic experience for that year.

Any other unit when changed to another type in a campaign, will lose a few experience points as they are unaccustomed to the brand new kit. So players who swap troops lots in between battles wont see as much progress.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Thanks a lot Andy! Fast and useful as always. I'll form my battalion as advised for my next campaign and see how it goes.

BTW, there's a lot of advice and useful info about the game engine scattered trough these forums, I believe it would be nice if it finds its way into the game guide.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

I see in this one you got extra Flaks, AT and SP Assault guns.

I was expecting more howitzers, should I keep just one battery in my battalion-sized core?

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Did you read post #2 in this thread, the section headed "Stage 1"?

Did you read post #17's last paragraph, starting "Things not to have in the core" or somesuch - part beginning "any more than a battery.."



The standard military rule-of-thumb allocation of artillery is one (1) battery per battalion for general purpose fighting.

A 3-4 battalion brigade will have one regiment(bn) of 3 batteries of Field Arty, and therefore its usually divvied out one per constituent battalion of the supported brigade.

You will only get more than that in a planned assault or defence. Those are the ones you buy with your support points.

Now - perhaps you may be getting confused with say the pre-baked British core, thinking that core had "2 batteries" when it does not. British field batteries were 2 platoons (troops) of 4 guns, for 8 guns total, whereas some continental armies only had 4 guns per battery. Some had 6 - which in the game will be 2 platoons of 3. Again, not 2 batteries, but one (1) battery made up of 2 elements.

The Brits actually used a 12 gun battery, 2 off in a regiment (Bn) in the 39-40 period, but went back to 3x8 gun batteries per regiment of 24 field guns. 12s were too cumbersome. But if your UK core starts in 39, feel free to buy 3 Troops - it is historical.

The real strength of the Allied armies in WW2 was in their artillery arm, and the ability to supply these guns with large amounts of ammo. Unlike the Germans who were always short on guns, and were usually rationed to a small number of shells per day in the late war.

So feel free to "go large" with arty if USA or Commonwealth, in your core or in support points. Soviets should only do so in the attack - and then the batteries should be general Support or perhaps Direct Support - cheaper and less responsive, but then more tubes can be bought for the same points expenditure.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Yes I did, sorry, actually I believe I was confused with your force selection on the LC as it includes some extra stuff besides the Stages on your first post, but then I realized that they were support assets :doh: though I also noticed that you bought the close recon and Inf AT elements mentioned on Stage 2 with supply points so I was wondering if some howitzers could be traded for some SP guns and flaks. The issue was if I should keep just one battery for all the campaign.

Anyway, thanks a lot for the info, I was reading some online material on the subject, I see that every nation had its peculiarities but overall it's as you say: 1 battery per battalion and the Germans were short on ordnance during the late stages of the war :bow:

I read that the Germans could assign more tubes to a given battalion depending on the importance and nature of the mission and special circumstances, but this was uncommon during the late war as the German stance became more defensive.

Also that "great emphasis was also placed on the battalion as the fire-control unit, and the separation of the battalion into independent batteries to be used as attached artillery is never recommended except in extremely large sectors, or under very difficult terrain conditions such as thick woods."

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/t...artillery.html

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/t...-division.html

:up:

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

I'm really enjoying my long campaign, but I seem to be stuck on September 1939. I put the end date in 1945 and 20 battles total. This is my 3rd battle in the same month. I think one was a special counter attack but not the other two.

Did I mess something up?

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Just to be on the safe side make a separate save of your campaign just in case this persists and then we would have a base to work from. Other than that keep playing and let us know if it progresses......if not consider this the Polish Campaign

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

False alarm. It must have been a second special battle in a row. I just jumped to May 1940.

One of the challenges for me in the long campaign will be knowing when I get new equipment and whether it is worth upgrading. I have a strategy guide that assigns each tank a letter grade relative to the year of the war. Other than that, I'm kind of lost on scount car, artillery, AT gun, and infantry (if relevant) upgrades.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

20 battles total is ridiculously short for a whole WW2 campaign, especially for Germany. 20 battles would probably be OK for the 1944-45 period. 40 would be probably the minimum amount I'd allocate for an entire war GE LC.

The German LC also has special code to make a few more early battles (the clock advances slower). Otherwise the Poland & France bit of even a 40 battles WW2 would maybe have 1 early war action, Possibly skipping France completely, with maybe 1 battle in Poland, if lucky. That was changed way back in the DOS version as end users were complaining of too few early war actions.

Special battles don't count towards the total battle counter, nor do they advance the clock.

Also - after Poland, the clock will skip right over the Sitzkrieg to France 40, maybe with a side trip to Norway as well.

Andy

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Forgot to answer the bolded bit earlier, I see.

Scout car upgrades - really the weapon of the scout car is its eyeballs, and in Real Life its radio. In wargames you the Player-God get to see what it found out even if it got killed off (usually) or at least a hint about what shot it to death (e.g. a tiger..). In Real Life of course without the radio and being able to survive to use it, it would just fall off the net with the HQ none the wiser.

Scout cars main assets then tend to be speed and small size. Maybe a weapon that can bother other scout cars, like a 20mm or a 37mm popgun.

Some later war armoured cars have larger guns, perhaps more than tinfoil armour too, and so can act as "tank destroyers - lite" but if you try to do that too often then they usually die.

A scout car (or little light tank - I love my T60s!) with a 20mm cannon and co-ax is a nice little infantry support pillbox against enemy infantry hordes. Provided you have determined there is no local anti-tank threat, they can shoot the enemy grunts up happily, and the 20mm has effect in the adjacent hexes so is really great for dealing with clumps of enemy "orcs"..

Artillery upgrades - range is king. If your guns outrange all of his (or most of the time) then counter battery on you is nil, and by you is good too as he cannot reply. Generally I stick to a 80-105mm battery with decent range. Larger calibres make shell holes, and that can sometimes benefit the enemy. Core arty should be mediums anyway, and 155mm stuff was heavy in the day so reserved for the divisional level.

On map howitzers I usually never bother with, unless self-propelled. Too much hassle to pick up and move with trucks, should (when!) they come under counter battery fires. On map mortars can be pushed forward a hex if needed. The AI might forget about those, if it lost sight (or it may have plotted on the area already..). Katyushas, I only buy on trucks (USSR has a nice cute little armoured one too). But they do need a lot of care and attention from ammunition trucks. Towed MRL are pretty much spotted on firing, and so wont last that long.

60mm and smaller mortars have a real range problem. They may be useful in the defence, but not so in the mobile battles. If USA then you may want to use a small truck to shift the company 60mm unit, but I usually replace them with 81s. I cannot be bothered with shifting mortars around so I get ones with decent range, find a rough hex somewhere to emplace them in and leave them there. Don't put them too close to the baseline or the crew may run away off-map though.

Towed AT Guns. You'll probably be stuck with 37mm popguns at war start. Germany can use a decent captured 47mm Czech one, which I think gets APCR by France 40 so more useful. Once you get to 50-57mm ATG I tend to stick with these. If UK, the 6 pounder gets a model with APDS later on, well worth upgrading to. Soviets get a decent long 57mm reasonably early, and I tend to stick to it.

The 50-57mm category can be manhandled a hex. That can make all the difference in survival, or jimmying them about a defensive position if you did not emplace them right or smoke etc has screened off the line. Or a truck can drop them behind a contour line in more mobile warfare and the crew can manhandle them up onto the hill later on, without the enemy spotting them (you hope!). 75+mm guns are immobile once dropped so have no such advantages, the truck has to tow them up onto that hill, and so if it is in LOS of the enemy then artillery will get plotted.

Since light ATG can be pushed forward a hex, and the 57mm category is rather "hot" in 40-42, I quite often manhandle some forwards behind my advancing leg companies. Especially if advancing through fields which make spotting them less easy, and also gives some light cover to return fire.

So I'm not a fan of large towed anti tank artillery. I might have some sometimes, with halftrack towers. But I'd rather have an M10 SPAT than a 3in ATG towed by heavy truck.

larger ATG are useful in the defence, as they get dug-in for free. Or you can buy a bunker equipped with one. In the delay, you may have some set up out front which you pop off at him, then pick up and scoot to a second defence line - out of line of sight of his advance! - for a second shot at him. But these heavies (and their tows) can be support troops.

Infantry Upgrades. The key characteristics of infantry really is
- does the section have an LMG?.
If not, upgrade the rifle only ones to a type with an LMG ASAP.
If your enemy is primarily infantry (Japanese, Chinese spring to mind) then if there is a section type with 2xLMG in it then that is a worthwhile upgrade.

- What is the AT weaponry?
Most of the majors bring tanks to the mix. Anti tank capability of your troops is therefore important.
e.g there is a UK section with 3 or 4 low value HEAT rifle grenades. That section works fine for me the whole war, deals with Italian and early German tanks just fine and as an assault weapon on other stuff later on since the HQ will have PIAT by then.
Ranged stuff like the bazooka, panzerfaust, PIAT are double plus good. get them when you can.
I tend to avoid molotovs and flame throwers since they cause fire hexes which can block the LOS of your longer ranged weapons who were trying to support your grunts.

Anti-tank rifles are worth squit IMHO they are a wasted weapon slot. So platoon HQs or whatever with those get changed to something else with another weapon (e.g. an LMG) as soon as possible.

If your opponent is not a tankie army then the AT weapon is less relevant. LMG will be, little mortars nice to have, and perhaps designated marksmen (internal sniper rifle) or maybe SMGs.

NB - The chief anti-tank weaponry of each of my rifle companies however resides in the tank platoon I have operating in close support!.

NB2 - close support does not necessarily mean mixed in with the leg grunts. Tanks are easily spotted and so tend to draw artillery. Grunts no likee!. So if advancing then they should be a little bit away from the infantry phalanx (Perhaps way in the rear till first contact).

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Very useful, thanks!

:clap::bow:

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Thanks for the writeup. I think I'm doing pretty well so far on most of those categories. I might switch back down to leg AT guns though.

I'm a little confused about the unit sizes in WWII. For example, with a 1939-1940 German infantry company on foot, how many individual tanks would I buy to have a tank platoon? In my campaign I took two PzIIIs and two PzIVs for variety. Sometimes that feels like too many, other times not enough!

Same with mortars. How many are in a battery? In the game I have a single unit, of the 80mm variety I believe.

At least I'm pretty happy with how many scout cars I have. Three SdKfz 222s are a lot of fun to use on 40x60 maps to hassle the rear units of the AI.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

German tank platoons have 5, some formations have 4 later in the war. So 2 sections of 2 is fine.

Mortar elements come in sections of 2-3 tubes, and platoons of about 6 tubes usually. Count the tubes since some game mortar elements represent only one mortar, others are sections with 2-3 tubes (ditto MGs). The latter I prefer since they provide more concentrated fires and have more crew to absorb any damage.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

This thread is full of good information.

I have half a mind to try a Soviet LC on 80x80 or 100x80 then to 100x100

as

1 x fo
1 x 107mm battery
2 x aa truck platoon
2 or 3 x 82mm mortar platoon
2 or 3 x 45mm atg section
1 x BA20 platoon plus maybe 1 x mech scout platoon
1 x scout platoon
3 x rifle company (mg included)
1 x engineer company minus 2 platoons
but maybe 1 heavy tank added - to be a KV-2 when available
1 x T-28 company (or should it be T-26)
1 x BT-7 company - one platoon replaced by motorcycle platoon
and another platoon replaced by a T-27 platoon

The tank company will be changed to T-34 when available and maybe add a platoon. BT-7 will change to T-34 too. The T-27's will become T-60 when available and then maybe SU-87/122 when needed. The force may not be historical but I have no business trying a campaign with a force this large. I am not yet qualified. So maybe that will historical. Especially when in Finland. Could be a disaster or two in the making.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

With the Russians there doesn't seem to be anything between the 76.2mm battery and the 107mm battery, and if range is king then the 122mm battery at 210 hexes outclasses them all, even the 203mm (only 208). Thinking of upgrading the 76.2 "Rat's Tails" to off-map so no need to expand the core. Which would you advise? Thanks in advance.

BTW I've had two special battles out of 14 so far and it seems they do count on the campaign results screen. Got 41 points out of 42 possible. Or am I missing something (probably)?

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Here's all the WW2 era Russian artillery that can fire >199 hexes

Go with the 122's

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

With the Russians my "favourite" off map core arty battery is the 107mm battery.

- Has decent range so sometimes will get good counter-battery fires (when skill has risen sufficiently) as well as being safe from some enemy shorter-ranged batteries
- Does decent damage, certainly a step up from 76mm
- But does not crater the ground, like the 122mm does (which can provide some cover for the enemy and/or make progress more difficult for own troops)

If I see the need to drop a wooden bridge - then I can buy a 122mmm section of on-map howitzers, or possibly off-map from support points. I often buy such "cratering" arty on winter maps to damage his approach routes (roads, wooden bridges etc).

Soviet mortars have decent range - any of them are perfectly fine for core on-map arty, other than the 50mm. The 120mm comes a little later but is an excellent grunt basher.

You should have 1-2 mortar sections for a battalion level core, and 1 off map battery if there are enough points that arty overload does not apply (I usually have 3 foot companies with 1 T34 company in support).

A section of 2 artillery tanks is always worth the points - BT-76, then upgraded to the various 122mm and 152mm SPGs as they arrive. Those can plaster an enemy with direct area fire (Z fire if needed) and do not count to arty overload as they do not have indirect capability. Especially nice when you see a phalanx of AI panzers coming at you - the AI likes to carry tank riders and a few HE lobbed at these will strip them off nicely. Low hit % is no bother with a pack of panzers, since any scattered misses are still likely to hit something.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

So what's the best flak to buy and later convert to SP-AAA? In a current German LC I started with 2 3.7cm flak batteries and upgraded the 4 most experienced to Wirbelwinds with lower ranged 20mm after the first Western Front battle (June 44). Unfortunately a platoon of Panthers got left out in open fields shooting up Brit infantry for too long and 3 of them got whacked by 4 Typhoons with only 1 point of damage inflicted by 2 or 3 Wirbels in range. (In the first West Front battle--a German delay--the original stationary flak damaged 3 of 4 Typhoons during their first strike, with only one Panther lost).

While the tanks would probably have been lost regardless, would it have been better to upgrade to Moebelwagons with 3.7cm guns instead? Thanks.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Best flak would be a ZSU-23-4 with its radar and fire control, but that is post-war, unfortunately.

In WW2, flak is about numbers and being lucky really. In my current LC I have a platoon of ground 37mm and 2 sections of some armoured truck with 37mm, but I usually buy 3-4 support sections of SP-flak. The tin trucks sometimes will survive cannon or MG strafing, and aren't too expensive.

I tend to keep my core SP trucks in the middle zone, the ground mounts on any nice ridge to protect the arty park, and the support ones try to keep up with the armour, while staying out of line of sight of his AT weapons. Preferably within 10 hexes of the main pack.

In the later war things like moebelwagens come along with 4-5 fire control, rather than the 2 or so of earlier war - and would likely prove to be better shots. You still would want them close by though, not lounging in the back.

So - yes the moebelwagen would have been a useful upgrade to have taken, if the choice was there.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

So I mostly play LC and per what others (and Andy in particular) have written about how to use/choose a core.

What do others think about Fixed Core Campaign games? Especially when the designer attempts to give you the historical kit?

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

OK so in a British LC (40 battles starting April 1940) two 60-pounder troops were bought as part of the core, hoping to upgrade one or both to longer-range off-map artillery for CB. Couldn't find a "howitzer battery" in the menu. However it turned out "troops" are off-map to begin with. And when one troop was changed to "25-pounder gun" all that resulted was a single field piece!

Any way to get British on-map howitzers (or medium mortar batteries bigger than 3-inch) at the start, or available to change shortly after? Thanks.

Re: Daunted by Long Campaign force selection
 

Buy them as part of the core - "Medium battery" is the formation you want for off map mediums, "heavy battery" for big stuff, "light battery" for field artillery.

For on-map then buy one of the on map formations, and select the bigger gun in the choices given. "howitzer tp" or the /t with tows, or the section or battery. These should have 25pdr, 4.5in and 6in howitzers to pick from.

4.2in mortars do not appear till 7/42.

If you want mortars with some range - use the captured Italian mortars available from 3/41 on.

There is a colonial portee section with a 3.7in mountain gun on the back of the truck in the misc page - a handy unit to shoot and scoot with. Just plan not to be there when the counter battery fire arrives!