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-   -   Early Observations/Thoughts (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46670)

Beachinnole November 25th, 2010 06:12 PM

Early Observations/Thoughts
Over all I like it a good "Beer and Pretzels" game, Some thoughts/suggestions. I understand I have limited experience with the game so what I’m writing here might change. If anyone sees anything I’ve noted that’s wrong please correct me as I’ve only played about three games so far. With the suggestions I’m not trying to kick down the barn here folks, really just things that IMHO could make it better with future mods. Everyone has different flavors as to what they like, but that said…

1. While Strategically there are some differences between units with respect to movement, those differences at seems to evaporate with the units capabilities on the tactical battlefield. For instance in combat a Rocket Battery can damage an aircraft unit and a SAM can take on an Tank unit. Might suggest later versions have combat factors for land vs. air and land vs. land. Don’t have much sea battle experience yet.

2. It might be easier to distinguish units Tech level if the icon were a progressively better unit. For example if Rocket Artillery I were an Honest John; Rocket Artillery II were a Lance; and Rocket Artillery III were the M270 MRLS unit depicted. Another example, Tank I might be a M47 Patton, II an M60, and III an M1A2, again just a suggestion.

3. The fighter and bomber units are the most powerful in the game, and dominate the tactical battlefield. Land units are necessary to take and hold the territory but only in some much as a few are necessary.

4. If you don't need large massed units, try to come at heavily defended territories from multiple territories with a balanced mix of forces from each territory. What this does on the tactical battlefield is to give you multiple units of a certain type. For instance if you enter Territory “X” from Territory “Y” with 6 fighters on the tactical battlefield you have one fighter unit with 6 steps. Now if instead you enter the Territory with 6fighters but 2 each from 3 neighboring territories now you have 3fighter units with 2 steps each. This will allow the fighters to cover more territory than be one massed unit. There are pros and cons both ways. BTW, same possibilities go for any units but especially the faster Bombers, Tanks and Armored Personnel Carriers.

5. Infantry and Rocket Artillery units are slow; create a Fabrication Unit near the territory you are about to assault and only build the infantry you need for that assault, and maybe some neighboring territories.

6. Tank and Armored Personnel units can move faster than infantry, all three are good for probing territory but remember the infantry will fall behind without transport.

7 Surveillance Aircraft seem to have no use on the tactical battlefield don’t bring them into a combat. Their role seems to be to allow you to “see” future into other territories, thus they are good to keep with your recon/probing land/air units.
Again, just early observations on my part. Also a question is there a real world map, and will there be a scenario editor? I'd love to create some real world scenarios to post, like a World War IV with a Middle Eastern, Russian, Asian Communist, Asian Western, European, United States/North American, South American, and African Alliances.

MajorEET November 25th, 2010 10:06 PM

Re: Early Observations/Thoughts
I agree with your observations. Very well thought out and written.
I especially like your idea of distinguishing the different tech levels of units by having different icons for them. That would also serve to make the upgrading more visually gratifying.

I haven't even built a surveillance aircraft yet, although I have lost units in combat to the enemies AWACS.
I am figuring out that the tactical combat map is very much a chess board.

Beachinnole November 25th, 2010 10:15 PM

Re: Early Observations/Thoughts
A Chessboard is a very good description! I could see the infantry as the pawns, the Bombers as the queen(s), The Fighters as the Rooks/Bishops and the Rocket Artillery/Helicopters as the Knights.

Beachinnole November 25th, 2010 10:26 PM

Re: Early Observations/Thoughts
Another thing I thought of, what is the time step between turns? Isn't it weird that a Carrier, SSBN, Cruiser, and Destroyer all build in the same amount of time? Shouldn't there be a delay before some of these units come online? What does it take 3 to 4 years to build out and commision a carrier? Of course its supposed to be a simple game, but might been neat if there were varying complexity levels that allowed for build times, and better conbat modifiers. I guess I'm just saying it has potential to be more with some future mods. It could be a simple game, and maybe a moderate complexity game with high replay value. Up to the developers of course, but still fun.

MajorEET November 25th, 2010 11:13 PM

Re: Early Observations/Thoughts
I am with you all of the way. A game like this has so much potential, it is exciting to think of the endless possibilities. I think they hit the nail on the head with the concept of mixing Axis and Allies, and Risk, with Empire Deluxe. Empire Deluxe had the "turns to complete" for different unit types and a modifier for cities that were damaged. In longer games it got tedious as all get out. I like the simplicity of this game, but like you- I am excited and want to make it perfect for my tastes.
As for the time step between turns, I noticed a calendar up in the top left corner. My eyes are going bad and couldn't read it real well, but it looked like the years were clicking by when I played that 9 hour game yesterday.

Skirmisher December 1st, 2010 09:19 PM

Re: Early Observations/Thoughts
After playing the demo a few times I have these thoughts.

Turn neutrals OFF.

AI is way to easy.
All it does is build stuff and right away it goes out to take as many territories as it can with what it has.
It gives no thought what so ever to holding it's land.
And it attacks with even support equipment all on it's own.
Like anti air units taking over a territory by themselves.

I use a simple strategy where I'll use a stack of jets(7) with a stack of tanks(7) to attack with, taking one territory at a time and then building fortifacations on it. Most of the units don't even seem to be needed.

In the build tree obsolete equipment should not show up.

The AI doesn't seem to build sea units or attack amphibiously.

I'm not trying to be harsh, just to guide improvments if the powers that be see fit to.

Does multiplayer work with the demo?

I'm sure playing a human would be alot better.

Togo December 2nd, 2010 01:50 AM

Re: Early Observations/Thoughts
Even in Empire Deluxe, the units seemed to have more difference, such as different attack/defend abilities against units along with a random hit/miss. Most units in WS have little or no difference in abilities, only attack & range, plus they never miss.

I've never even build most of the units in the game because you just don't need them.

The AI never attacks ships off it's coasts, you can build a few cruisers that can attack all game long, the same for ballistic subs and the AI never counters with aircraft or ships/subs of it's own.

I wish the game was more like Empire Deluxe Enhanced Edition, still one of my all time favorites.

Skirmisher December 2nd, 2010 02:30 AM

Re: Early Observations/Thoughts
Well I'm going to try cranking the starting tech all the way.

Maybe the AI will nuke me. I havent seen that yet.
That might change things abit.

In the last game I played I was launching attacks from my home continent
against two others using the amphibious ships.
Neither AI sent anything to stop me from doing that,I had unfettered control of the entire sea lane, without so much as a destroyer.

ScottWAR December 2nd, 2010 09:27 AM

Re: Early Observations/Thoughts
Agree,...the AI is very bad. Much worse than most games I have played.
Needs some SERIOUS work.

Tim Brooks December 2nd, 2010 01:47 PM

Re: Early Observations/Thoughts
Psst... Come here.

Don't ask me how I know, but I have heard rumors that the AI is being looked at very closely...

Don't tell anyone, okay?

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