[cbo]

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

Hi Claus
Very interesting, here is something relevant from
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ped-charge.htm

"A Monroe-effect shaped-charge warhead can be expected to penetrate armor equal to 150-250% of the warhead diameter. ".

This is far to simplistic a statement. Penetration can be a lot more and a lot less depending on design, liner material, quality of manufacture, coneshape and what not.

So the maximum space a bazooka HEAT can cross and still have its armour penetrating jet effect is 2.36 * 2.5, thats 5.9 inches. Any further and the jet has lost its focus and is more akin to blast than blowtorch.

Again, far too simplistic and you seem to be confusing standoff with penetration?

Reality is that penetration varies with stand-off. Some figures from Journal of Battlefield Technology suggest that a HEAT warhead with a steel liner (as most WWII rounds, AFAIK) would penetrate 2.8 cone diameters with a standoff of 1.0 At 3x standoff, penetration would rise to 3.5 conediameters, then dropping back to 2.1 cone diameters at 6x standoff.
This is of course a simplifaction and penetrations would probably apply more to post-war rounds than the WWII items, but it does show that the relationship between standoff and penetration is a complex one.

Now PZ IV track width is about 15 inches so the schurtzen side plate is at least 15 inches from the lower hull.
Looking at pictures its clear that the upper hull and turret is at least 11 inches behind the schurtzen plate.
see for example
http://www.steeldragons.net/PanzerIVbuildpageone.html
So shurtzen is clearly far enough away from the armour proper to protect 100 per cent from bazooka and PIAT.

The problem with these idle speculations is that they dont fit with reality. Note the British test showing that the PIAT could, on a good day, in fact penetrate a 6mm plate, reach across 50cm of space (that's about 20") and still penetrate a 32mm armour plate.

This is exactly why circumstantial evidence like hits on Panther roadwheels and speculative arithmatic is not sufficient evidence to warrant changes to the game - in my view.

You need the results of actual tests with the actual weapons involved if you want to come anywhere near the truth of the matter. And note, that even the British ordnance people doing these tests did not think that they were conclusive!

Claus B