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Old September 3rd, 2017, 07:30 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: Nationalist Chinese Engineers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
295, 296, 298 M4A1, M4A3, M4A4 - M4A4 was surely a main model, and apparently the only Sherman of the 1st PTG, used from 4/44...
It might be reasonable to delete unit 298 and replace 295 or 296 (or both) with M4A4, since these units were available earlier and there's a chance that somebody used them in a custom scenario (on the other hand, leaving a deleted unit in place with changed nationality should solve a problem with compatibility).

297 M3 - there's no info on using M3 medium tank by the Chinese, especially by the 1st PTG.

Aircraft:
(primary source: "A History of Chinese Aviation - Encyclopedia of Aircraft and Aviation in China until 1949")

396 Kwangsi 3 - only one Kwangsi Type 3 was built, and only in 1937 (now 1930) - it was obsolete in a beginning. The photo isn't Kwangsi Type 3 anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liuchow_Kwangsi_Type_3
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/kwangsi3.html
To be removed IMO. Same for unit 440.

If we don't want to waste an icon, it could be replaced as the earliest aircraft with Waco 240A fighter, reportedly capable even of taking two 100 lb bombs http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww15/f/1245/267/0#1
https://books.google.pl/books?id=i5W...0china&f=false


397 Douglas O-2MC - first delivered in 6/30 (now 6/32). Alternative heavier bomb load 2 x 120lb described in action (book p.115). Used also after Japanese attack in 6/37, until some 1939.

398 Breda Ba.27 - delivered in early 1935 (now 6/36). Already in 1937 withdrawn for training.

399,400 V-92C Corsair - in fact V-92C were delivered only in mid-34 (now 6/32). Similar V-65C were delivered from the end of 1933, both were known as "New Corsairs". However, there was also O2U-1D "Old Corsair" used from 1930, with weaker engine (425 vs 600 hp) (text attached). I don't know what was a practical difference, so it might be just made one aircraft, named eg. Vought Corsair, from 1/30. Maybe old Corsair should carry only light bombs - while New Corsair could carry in action 2 x 120lb, as described in a book (unit 400 now has only 1x110 lb).

I'll attach a photo, and here's another http://celticowboy.com/corsair_china.jpg (now it has clear Siamese markings).

Old Corsair could be easily the earliest aircraft, after removal of wrong 396 Kwangsi 3. Or there could be added Breguet 14, which was the most typical light bomber of different Chinese air forces until the end of 1920s (eg. Thai unit 302 with icon 837 of O-2MC). Typical WW1 era bomb load of Bre 14 was 32 x 8kg or 16 x 20kg or 16(8?) x 40kg, I don't know about heavier bombs.

Old Corsair could be also used as an AOP aircraft from 1/30, instead of 440 Kwangsi 3


402 Type 97 Ki-27 - it is unlikely, that the Chinese captured a significant number of newest Japanese fighters, and in 1937. One is "thought to have been captured and tested by the Chinese in 1942": http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww15/f/1017/10/0 , but A History of Chinese Aviation doesn't mention any.
The photo seems something else (a two-seater rather).

It might have been confused with obsolete Nakajima Type 91, bought in 1935: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakaji...ype_91_Fighter

It's worthy to be replaced eg. with Curtiss Hawk 75M, used from late 38. Icon 847 looks good for Hawk 75 as well.
Armament was probably four 7.62mm MGs and possibly bombs.
Photos: http://worldofwarplanes.ru/dcont/fb/...FIX=/dcont/fb/ or the same http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hkEP181-77...monstrator.png

403 Fiat Cr.32 - weren't listed as operational by 10/40 (now 7/41)

404 Boeing P-26 - precisely, Boeing 281 (export model).

405 Heinkel He 66CH - it seems, that it didn't exist: "Twelve were allegedly ordered in July 1934, but not delivered." Information, that a second order for 12 was fulfilled by sending ex-Lufwaffe He 50 "is pure fiction". (text attached)

406 Polikarpv I-15 - correct designation of this variant is "I-15 bis".

407,415 A-12 Shrike - known just as Curtiss Shrike (Model 60). A cool photo http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls...p3pqo1_500.jpg - possibly American, but the rudder looks very Chinese-like as well


408, 410 Type 10 I-16, Type 24 I-16 - names should be "I-16 Type..." (original Soviet variant designation, not Japanese "Type").
Chinese markings photo:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/91/c9/69/9...054da73187.jpg

According to a Polish article on fighters in China, first there were used I-16 Type 5 with only 2 MGs (11/37 might be).
I-16 Type 10 with 4 MGs arrived only in spring of 1938, and I-16 with 20mm guns (type 17 and 24) - only from late 1939 (8/39?) (now 11/37)


409 Henschel Hs-123
- were available only from 4/38 (now 4/36 - text attached)


414 P-51 Mustang - delivered from 12/44 (now 3/44 - text attached)

418, 419 P-38 Lightning - in fact they were only reconnaissance unarmed Lockheed F-5s, and used only from 7/43 according to A History of Chinese Aviation..
Photo: http://wpalette.com/en/pictures/56780

To be removed IMO.
American P-38 Lightnings appeared into China-Burma theatre in 9/43 only.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Chinese_aircraft.zip (1.99 MB, 186 views)
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