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Old June 25th, 2009, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: North Korea errors report

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcello View Post
Aren't they talking about this by chance?


In this case source is www.china-defense.com
If Jane’s are to be believed it is a M-1985 37 mm SPAAG manufactured in the ‘80s. There is another version of the M-1985 armed with a single 57 mm S-60 gun. Also produced in the ‘80s was the M-1986 SPAAG armed with twin 23 mm guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcello View Post
I have some doubt about Jane's claim. If you are copying a
ZSU-23-4 there should not be any reason to replace the quad
23mm with a twin 23mm. The gun complex should not be the hardest part to manufacture, even for the North Koreans, and there are not more powerful cartridges available in the 23mm range than the ones already used on the ZSU-23-4. So you cannot have a more powerful twin 23mm guns and the quad 23mm is already barely good enough. A twin 30mm would make more sense as it would have some extra range.
Jane’s can be wrong sometimes. I’ve learnt that first hand. They could be right though. The M-1992 may have replaced the earlier SPAAGs with twin 23 mm and 37 mm guns in the early ‘90s. The North Koreans may have used what they had available – and they had shedloads of 23 mm ZU-23-2s and 37 mm guns. My own view is that they may have produced a twin 30 mm version as well. Maybe later on. I’m not sure whether the DRPK had 30 mm guns in the early ‘90s. These guns were stuck onto versions of the standard NK AT-S full-tracked chassis that has been used as a platform for all manner of guns (howitzers, AAA and coastal artillery).

Several other countries and companies have developed or produced SPAAGs armed with the ZU-23-2. They did it because they had lots of them to spare and because it was a proven weapon.

Oerlikon Contraves have developed an improved 23 mm round for the ZU-23 that has a greater velocity and longer effective range. There is a huge market for it because the gun is used by more than 60 armies around the world. The North Koreans probably don’t have the round though – unless they bought it from an unscrupulous third party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcello View Post
About the vehicle itself.
Initially I thought it was an other self propelled artillery complex. However I was told on tanknet that the gun was an antitank weapon (possibly a MT-12 lookalike). Further, on several recently published OOBs ( The North Korean People's Army By James M. Minnich for example) there is mention of direct fire SPG units. SU-100 or SU-76 are listed as equipment but I suspect that the vehicle in the above picture is what is actually used, at least in the first line units.
After flipping the picture the right way around and comparing it with images of NK SPGs I’d say that the chassis is a AT-S. The other elements – faces, uniforms, red signal flags and vehicle numbering – also fit.

I’m not sure about the gun. The KPA is said to use several guns in an antitank role – such as the M1944 100 mm FG, D-44 85 mm FG and D-48 85 mm ATG. It looks a bit like a ‘Rapira’ – but there may be other Russian and Chinese guns that are theoretical candidates.

The KPA could have a ‘mystery’ SPATG in service. I would be more convinced if I knew where the picture originally came from.

Edit: I think the Minnich tome may have been written before the U.S. military's North Korea Primer. The organizational charts – from my quick flick through – seem to be from five years earlier: 2000. It does mention the use of SU-100 SPGs by antitank battalions though.

Last edited by redcoat2; June 25th, 2009 at 09:19 AM..
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