Thread: Smg
View Single Post
  #4  
Old September 13th, 2018, 07:10 AM

Kiwikkiwik Kiwikkiwik is offline
BANNED USER
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 183
Thanks: 8
Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Kiwikkiwik is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Smg

Ok I get it NO CHANGES, But we can still discuss the merits? and point out an error,
The error is that SMG are actually not generic, SMGs firing the .45 ACP bullet get an extra point of HE kill. So If its fair enough to have different HE kills then maybe its fair enough to have different ranges?
Here is an interesting quote form Chris McNabs book Soviet submachine guns of World war II.

Fired in comparative tests, the 7.62mm round demonstates a far superior trajectory (to 9mm and .45)...This is the key reason why both the PPS-43 and PPSh-41 manuals include range data out to 300m...for most pistol (SMG) cartridges commanding this sort of range would be an utter impracticality, but for the 7.62mm Soviet round it is a realizable possibility (although 200m is a more realistic practical range). It is often noted that the performance characteristics of the 7.62mm Soviet round actually approach those of rifle cartridges....the submachine gun has a round that can reach out and touch the enemy at ranges beyond those of similarily armed opponents (Other SMGs).

SMGs fire either the 9mm parabellum .45 ACP or 7.62 Tokarev bullets or rarely the Mauser 9mm. The quote above suggests that the 7.62 outranges the others. This is true, 7.62 is a faster bullet and so has a flatter trajectory, flatter trajectory translate into better range. Of the others the .45 is a much slower bullet than the Parabellum, has a lower muzzle velocity, and so has a lesser range.
Obviously drop shouldnt be a problem as gun sights can be adjusted for range. However all the SMGs firing .45 ACP have unadjustable sights. They are clearly intended for short range work only.

lone sentry says this
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/t...-riflemen.html
According to a Russian instructional poster, best results are obtained with this (SMG) weapon as follows: single shot, up to about 300 yards; short bursts, about 200 yards; long bursts, about 100 yards.

Bullet drop and hence effective range for all SMGs is calculated in the attached spreadsheet. I used the M1 carbine as a benchmark.
At a range of 250m the M1 carbine has a bullet drop of 8cm and 250m is the maximum range of the weapon in the game. So I used 8cm drop or greater as the cut off value to calculate SMG maximum range. The red entries in the spreadsheet.
The breaks SMGs into 3 range groups, 100, 150 and 200m

In the 200m group are 7 SMGs, They are the Russian SMGs firing the 7.62 bullet, the 38/42 SMG (Berretta 38/42) and the two Hungarian SMGs firing the extra powerful mauser 9mm round. These bullets are travelling faster giving the more accurate flatter trajectory. The Hungarian SMGs have just a little over 8cm drop at 9cm drop at 200m, have a barrel that is longer than the M1 carbine and can fire single shot. Really they are a closer to a carbine than a SMG but can still fire full auto. All have range adjustable sights.
The Russians could replace rifles in infantry squads with SMGs because their SMGs had better range than the typical cheaply made, inaccurate trench clearing SMGs of other armies.

Leroy Thompsons book The M3 Grease gun says this about M1 carbine and M3 grease gun.

Generally, the M1 Carbine's effective range was given as 300 yd, but due to bullet drop with the earlier non-adjustable sights, 200 yd was more likely. Effective range for the M3 was usually considered to be 100yd, but 50yd was more realistic.

The fixed M3 sight is zeroed for 100ft, about 33 yds, in leroy Thompsons book he says this makes it usable out to 75 yds.
None of the .45 calibre SMG have an adjustable sight. This pretty much precludes accurate fire over about 100m anyway.

In the 100m group are 4 SMGs All the American .45 SMGs. Their heavier bullet might have more punch, giving higher HE Kill, but as their bullet is slower it has less range as is clearly demonstrated in the spreadsheet.

The rest of the SMGs get 150m as is the case now.
I would however make an exception for the early STENs. The crudety of their construction limited their range rather than the ballistics of the bullet. I think they should get a range of 100m the better made STEN Mk5 should get 150m.

Also, it could be argued that guns in the 150m range group that dont have an adjustable sight could also be moved into the 100m range category, that would put a further 7 SMGs into the bottom group. Highlighted in Green in the spreadsheet.

I used this formula to calculate bullet drop.
time of travel = d/v
drop = grav accle/2X(t)squared.
Assume air resistence is the same for all bullets. They all have very similar shapes.
Attached Files
File Type: xls SMG3.xls (61.5 KB, 312 views)