[Daynarr]

Originally posted by Pocus:
I dont know who does not understand the other. Perhaps thats both of us. Caelian weapons are nasty because they pass etheralness. I dont care if my mages cant be attacked directly, because most often than not your etheral units are not your mages, but either seasonal spirits, or in case of astral nations any big unit which would receive a body etheral from a mage (a shaman, witch hunter, whatever). As of now you could help tremendously your units by casting etheralness on them. Except that against Caelum your are toasted.

Misunderstandings happen, that’s why we can talk - so we can understand each other better.
Just don't take any of this as some sort of assault on you because it is not. I'm just trying to clarify this question since I'm able to see the end product and give you accurate info on some of its specifics.
Here we go.
You can help your troops tremendously if you cast some other spell as well. You have zounds of spells with earth magic that increases protection and magic resistance of troops, nature spells that improve both resistance and protection, fire spells that will hurt attackers (and do some major damage on the battlefield) etc. So I really miss a point here. Why would I rely on etherealness spells against Caelum if I know that Caelum weapons ignore it. I'll use some other protective spells and summons who are far more effective then seasonal spirits. All it requires is change of tactics and there are some even cheaper and better methods of protecting your troops. Etherealness is just one of possible protections (and not even most powerful because earth magic surpasses them by far in that area). So these weapons don't unbalance the game, they just make you use different tactic.

I dont understand the relationship between the ability to bypass etheral, and air magic or a drain scale. Can you elaborate?

I didn't point out a relationship between bypassing ethereal and drain, but relationship between Ulm and Caelum in which Ulm doesn't care about Caelum Ice weapons (they could use rocks and sticks for all they care with their armor), doesn't care about flyers who will only get killed faster with their weak protection and their only weakness being magic which DRAIN reduces significantly. Ulm and some other nations are perfect example how these weapons don't affect them and thus there is no reason to say they are "overpowered".

Yes, this is already there in doms I. Ice armor effectiveness depends on heat. Also they have Wingless or Temple Guards, which are an hell of a soldier. For example 4 temple guards kill 12 fall bears in neutral temperature. Try to do that with 120 gp worth (in doms I TG cost 30 gp apiece) of any other units, be it Emerald Guards, Knight of the Holy Chalice, Warden, or what ever you want. You cant surpass TG, just because their caelian weapons is the insult which add to the injury.[/qb]

They have wingless who are no better then standard light infantry (hp 9 prot 10) and excel in only slightly greater morale. Temple guards are good but cost 20 gold and 43 RESOURCES and can be produced only in main castle. You won't see much of them simply because you cant produce lot of them. Also they have 18 protection in normal temperature that is nothing special comparing to other heavy infantries that can be produced both faster and in other castles as well. Their ground force is not so powerful as a result but at least they have it (don't get me wrong, they are good). And again you put an example against spirits, which are by far not the only summons or cheapest summons or most powerful summons. I don't know how it was in Dom I but here they don't play large role in battles. If there is major battle I will use more powerful summons like Tiamat, Kithironic Lions or swarm you with weaker cheaper units that don't consume supplies (magical or undead).

have problem finding the explaination logical. In essence you are telling us that Caelian weapons are less an advantage, because the targets where they could apply their supremacy (compared to other weapons) are more potents but less numerous (because costlier). I would say that his render the problem at least as acute as before.

I think the problem with "misunderstanding" start somewhere here (bolded text). Where did you read that they are more potent? They just cost more so you can't swarm the battlefield with them and forces you to use other units, summons and spells in combat.

[ September 24, 2003, 15:38: Message edited by: Daynarr ]