[Mobhack]

[quote=Cross;654275]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Hi Andy,

Here's a quote from the site you referenced that appears to contradict this.

An observer could use the two troops of his battery simultaneously against two different targets and the battery's two observers could each engage a different troop target simultaneously. If a battery's observers were presented with more targets than the battery could engage then the 'multi-battery' procedures enabled them to call for the fire from other batteries via their own BCP and RHQ.

However, if you are right that an observer could only plot one target point at a time, I'm surprised that it's not possible to code that into the game in some way.

cheers,
Simon

Sure - an observer could plot each troop of his own battery onto 2 different (but both in LOS so he could observe each). But as I already said - that would be one of the exceptions to normal practice that most wargamer train-spotters would elevate into Standard Operating Practice.

- The 2 troops are part of the same battery, on the same radio network etc
- Both targets are in LOS of the observer
- It will take more time to set up the shoot, and to observe since he (and the BCP) must ensure that each correction is applied to the correct troop. Each "shot" and "splash" message the battery sends out will have to be preceeded by an identifying code for the troop, and if the targets are widely apart then the observer might have to face in a different direction (or run to an opposite side of the house he is spotting from etc).

Or if the 2 targets are rather close together, then it is just a variation on adjusting the concentration (what the USA calls the "sheaf") by moving one particular troops' Mean Point of Impact and not that of individual guns. We had a similar thing with the mortars called "check belt" - if you wanted to fire into a wood edge (where the rounds impact was not easily observed) then you would range in say 50 yards in front of the wood line, and when satisfied call for a "check belt" and each individual mortar in sequence then fired 1 round so you could then issue individual corrections. Once satisfied with the belt of fire you issued a final adjustment to lift the belt X metres into the tree line and then Fired For Effect.

It is much more straightforward for any set of wargames rules therefore to state that an observer can only operate one observed shoot at one time. otherwise the train-spotters will use it as the 100% solution, just like say they will have 12 of the extra-super-rare (18 items produced) 88 on a truck as part of their standard German core's troops .

Unobserved shoots are a different kettle of fish of course, but those do not have observers, only Target Reference Points and type of fire as the constituent fire order.

About the only way one could do this in the simplistic SP Command and Control System is to introduce the "Comand Points" system of SP3. Say an observer had to use 1 CP to call for fire - problem is that SP treats each individual indirect fire game piece as a battery in its own right. A typical on-map battery has 6 individual guns so our observer would need to have 6 CP to call these 6 "batteries" that SP treats them as, rather than the collective of 6 that the battery actually is.

And SP still has the ultra simplistic communications system, whereby any old "0" element can casually talk to the artillery because it has a magical radio that acts like a modern mobile phone. An AOP should be considered on the arty network, but a platoon commander should have to pass the request up to company, then to bn, then across to the arty representative depending on the radio network. And since these would be separate nets operating on fixed frequencies in WW2, then it would just be a request to stonk ABC123 since there was no direct conversational route for the platoon commander to talk to the guns. he could only do so by relaying the message through several nets.

That is why WW2 FOOs tended to operate from a carrier, with a few supporting other ranks as driver/operators. The carrier carried the long range radio which was netted to the arty frequency, and also usually a short range radio to net into the infantry company frequency (or just voice contact with the supported arm if not). Plus some telephone wire and a phone to use to link to the carrier from his perch e.g. up a steeple.

And that was still the case in the 1970s - a radio was set (netted) on the one frequency and stayed there since the netting-in process was tedious. You did not switch to "channel 9" unless you had to, since doing so needed a lot of playing with the SWR dials to tune the antenna etc (and if you had a land rover FFR, these meters were out on the bonnet so you had to stop and go to the front of the wagon and shout readings to the guy in the back). Then you had to find the other net that was supposed to be on 771.6 or whatever as they had netted to their own particular idea of 771.6 was for their local conditions... The positioning of platoon hides was often dictated as much by what spot had the best radio reception than what was ideal tactically.

I can remember when in Phillips MEL in the mid 80s we had one of their radios that could choose from 16 channels off the handset, and it then did whatever was necessary with the antenna all by itself. I would have loved one of those 10 years earlier, it would have saved me standing out in the rain with a torch in the night at the front end of a land rover FFR shouting at the radio operator.

It would really need a completely new game engine to properly implement a set of Command and Control rules and a realistic artillery model. As with most wargames command rules, they are would also there to tone down the "player as God" effect. (Enemy on my flank unexpectedly? - no problem everyone instantly moves left to take them on since I as God-player can see it even if the piece called A0 "Col Klink" has no knowledge of the event yet, let alone the game piece BB0 "Lt Duffer" and so I instantly move Klink and Duffer by my "hand of God").

Cheers
Andy