.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Air Assault Task Force- Save $7.00
Approaching Infinity- Save $7.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT > Campaigns, Scenarios & Maps
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 31st, 2016, 10:39 AM

IronDuke99 IronDuke99 is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 429
Thanks: 705
Thanked 98 Times in 78 Posts
IronDuke99 is on a distinguished road
Default The Tank is dead

We have been hearing that the tank is dead for many years now...

ATGM, AT Helos, etc have killed the Tank as a threat.

So you have a very well trained Platoon or Company, say USMC or British Army, and you are attacked by 50-100 enemy Tanks, with armoured infantry support. Do you really think that even a well trained Company will win?

Well it might, maybe, Perhaps, given a good position, and time to improve it, and assorted armoured and air support.

But it also might not, it might kill around 50% of the enemy Tanks and then those Tanks might break through. That Company position might be passed and surrounded.

It is a shock thing. The Tank is dead? Really? Think about it...

Last edited by IronDuke99; August 31st, 2016 at 10:52 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old August 31st, 2016, 11:08 AM
RightDeve's Avatar

RightDeve RightDeve is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yogyakarta, Nusantara
Posts: 461
Thanks: 98
Thanked 98 Times in 64 Posts
RightDeve is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Tank is dead

A military arm is not supposed to operate on its own.

There are too many variables to take into account:

-When deploying tanks with a high chance of encountering mighty enemy Attack Helos or Standoff AGM tank busters, they should be supported by equally mighty anti-air measures.

-Tanks, when blitzing, should be supported by voluminous artillery support, at least when cracking the initial defensive positions. After that it may roam around freely in the backyard area (unless enemy employs defense in depth).

-When attacking dense terrain, tanks should be accompanied by infantry to clear out possible AT locations or ambush. The tank, in return, will provide quick & heavy fire to the advancing infantry.


Those who think that tanks are now mighty enough, that they can withstand ATGM fire quite well (despite obscure & very rare sources pointing to that, not to mention the many variables involved in a chaotic battlefield), failed to understand that for every action there will always be a reaction. A tank gets better, and so will the Anti-tank measures.

We should not think tanks are mighty enough now that we can forget about Combined Arms principle, and do an attack pell-mell Yom Kippur style.

Generally, tanks are still useful of course. It is the 'tough type' of ground force, the soft one is the leg infantry. Each one complementing & helping each other.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to RightDeve For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old August 31st, 2016, 11:35 AM

IronDuke99 IronDuke99 is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 429
Thanks: 705
Thanked 98 Times in 78 Posts
IronDuke99 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Tank is dead

Generally agree with the post above.

It is about combined arms.

The Tank is far from dead.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old August 31st, 2016, 11:38 AM

jp10 jp10 is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 60 Times in 43 Posts
jp10 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Tank is dead

This is the type of question that will get a respondent an ear full of lemonade.
You postulate a platoon/company defeating an armored battalion/short brigade with little other defining attributes? Why not throw in a Death Ray from the planet Mongo?

The concept of the 'land battleship' is what died. The swagger of a tanker on a Saturday night is still going strong.

www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a264578.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 31st, 2016, 01:08 PM
shahadi's Avatar

shahadi shahadi is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: I ain't in Kansas anymore, just north of where Dorothy clicked her heels is where you'll find me.
Posts: 833
Thanks: 497
Thanked 238 Times in 167 Posts
shahadi is on a distinguished road
Post Re: The Tank is dead

The tank maybe dead on terms of it's changing role given MOUT combat that we seem to witness increasingly since the first Gulf War.

But it's role in combined arms doctrine, while undergoing change (what does not change) is secure on the battlefield.

The underlying issue as I understand this thread is what is the changing role of amor given maneuver, reconnaissance, and security operations in a combined arms context, the Air Land Battle.

I wonder what they're teaching at Fort Benning, the US premier armor school today. I

=====
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 31st, 2016, 11:27 PM

jp10 jp10 is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 60 Times in 43 Posts
jp10 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Tank is dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post
I wonder what they're teaching at Fort Benning, the US premier armor school today.
Classes on how to warm up your coffee with a laser rangefinder. How to wear a CVC helmet without messing up your hair style. Lectures on "Tank-Tops, appropriate turret wear or Tank Park Trash?" and "Bogey or Bogie?, the little wheels that mean so much."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old September 1st, 2016, 01:30 AM

jivemi jivemi is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Philippines
Posts: 437
Thanks: 299
Thanked 106 Times in 84 Posts
jivemi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Tank is dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronDuke99 View Post
So you have a very well trained Platoon or Company, say USMC or British Army, and you are attacked by 50-100 enemy Tanks, with armoured infantry support. Do you really think that even a well trained Company will win?
Well as jp10 pointed out this is a mismatch, an infantry company against one or two tank battalions. Were it company vs company though, about a dozen tanks and platoon of infantry vs maybe 150 grunts, the tankers might run into problems if the ground-pounders were dug-in. But if they catch the leggies out in the open it would most likely be a slaughter.

No, the tank ain't dead, but it isn't a panacea for every land combat situation either.

Last edited by jivemi; September 1st, 2016 at 01:39 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old September 1st, 2016, 02:51 AM
troopie's Avatar

troopie troopie is online now
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Die Operasionale Gebied
Posts: 303
Thanks: 22
Thanked 46 Times in 27 Posts
troopie is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Tank is dead

If the tank is by itself, it's just a target. If the tank is with support units, it's a serious threat.

troopie
__________________
Pamwe Chete
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old September 1st, 2016, 08:09 AM
Suhiir's Avatar

Suhiir Suhiir is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,283
Thanks: 251
Thanked 501 Times in 389 Posts
Suhiir is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Tank is dead

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...xt=usarmytrain
__________________
Suhiir - Wargame Junkie

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 1st, 2016, 08:58 AM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 9,620
Thanks: 1,795
Thanked 2,655 Times in 1,400 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: The Tank is dead

This was posted in the past but it's still a "fun" read......I especially like the 5 gal gas can in front of the claymore....nasty
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.