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  #1  
Old May 7th, 2017, 01:16 PM
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Exclamation Israeli Assault Boats

OOB4 Unit 246 UC 42 Israel.

I could not find the unit in a formation from the Editor purchase screen. So, I popped over to Australia and bought Zodiac boats.

But, I noticed in Mobhack a unit 246 UC 42, an Assault Boat. However, in the Database Checking Utility, there are no formations using UC 42 in the OOB15. Nor, in OOB4.

I suspect this is intentional, that UC 42 is not listed within a formation.

My workaround, in Scenhack changed the Zodiac boats for Assaualt boats using OOB4, OOB Index 246, Nation Israel, id tag 4. From the Leaders screen subbed Israeli names.

I'm good to good right?


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Old May 7th, 2017, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Israeli Assault Boats

The assault boat is in a fixed position in the OOB because the code that gives rubber rafts to units in a river crossing scenario uses that for generating rubber rafts which are carried by infantry.

It has no formation since it is unnecessary - they are created on the fly in the river crossing scenario, for the assault forces infantry. it auto-magically gets the rifle (slot 1 weapon) as "armament" with some token ammo from its infantry passenger, when loaded.

(Just like the crew template is there for the code's use in spawning same, and the HQ ditto. There is no crew formation since there is no need for it, nor is there an HQ formation since A0 is auto-generated).

if an OOB has other types of small boat then those are mainly there for scenario designers.

In the beach assault, the code automatically buys landing barges (those are also auto-generated as the cargo of barge carriers in the beach assault scenario) and in some cases, a few heavy amphibians for infantry use.

So - if you are creating a river crossing scenario, and you have properly set the variable as described in the Game Guide - your infantry have their own personal assault boat.

If you are creating a beach assault, and have set the variables right before purchase, the code will generate what it thinks is the appropriate transport craft.

In both cases, the AI knows how to handle those situations, if it is the attacker. Otherwise, the AI knows not how to use floaters.

Why would you want the rubber rafts in any situation other than what is provided for by the regular procedures?. they are special items, used internally by the code, not there for regular use by scenario designers.
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Old May 8th, 2017, 04:53 PM
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Post Re: Israeli Assault Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post

Why would you want the rubber rafts in any situation other than what is provided for by the regular procedures?. they are special items, used internally by the code, not there for regular use by scenario designers.
1. The beach and river crossing flags when set were giving me all infantry units carrying inflatable rafts. I only needed a small detachment with boats.

2. So, following advice I deactivated beach and river crossing. Now I can have my small detachment with boats and regular infantry (without boats).

3. When a unit carrys an inflatable raft, anytime he enters or re-enters shallow water the raft activates. I do not want this behavior, so I need external boats, raider, zodiac, or rigid raider.

4. Strange. In the operation a Milan III team did not fire on the inflatable rafts, while firing on the raiders (in another iteration). So, I thought to purchase the rafts, however due to item 3 above, and the speed of the rigid raider, I choose the latter over the former.


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Old May 9th, 2017, 01:32 AM
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Default Re: Israeli Assault Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post
4. Strange. In the operation a Milan III team did not fire on the inflatable rafts, while firing on the raiders (in another iteration). So, I thought to purchase the rafts, however due to item 3 above, and the speed of the rigid raider, I choose the latter over the former.
Not really.
Inflatable rafts/assault boats have no armor rating (0), rigid raiders/Zodiac H-733's do (1).
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Old May 9th, 2017, 01:57 AM
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Post Re: Israeli Assault Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post
Not really.
Inflatable rafts/assault boats have no armor rating (0), rigid raiders/Zodiac H-733's do (1).
Yes strange, indeed. There are two raiders, the rigid and raider. The raider is as the assault boat unit 246 in: speed, carry, and amor rating. And, yes the stupid Milan team wasted a missile on a rubber raft.

See the Australians, Obat15, unit 342 and the zodiac boat unit 343, no armor.

So, yeah strange, at least thus far.

Anyway, I made a decision, my guys will ride in the rigid raiders, more appropriate to boot.

Thanks for commenting.


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Old May 19th, 2017, 03:00 AM
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Confused Re: Israeli Assault Boats

That Milan III team wasting a missile on a rubber raft continues to fester. Now, after setting armor front max and min settings above the values of my rigid raiders, that Milan III team continues to send a missiles at the rigid raider (armor rating 1 all around.)

The armor front max and min filters for the Milan III team are 255 and 9 respectively.

As a test I inserted a Mag'ach 7A with the Milan III killing the tank then sending a missile down the throat of a rigid raider.

Again, I do not want the Milan III to fire on the rigid raider.

Any suggestions.

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Old May 26th, 2017, 02:13 PM

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Default Re: Israeli Assault Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post
That Milan III team wasting a missile on a rubber raft continues to fester. Now, after setting armor front max and min settings above the values of my rigid raiders, that Milan III team continues to send a missiles at the rigid raider (armor rating 1 all around.)

The armor front max and min filters for the Milan III team are 255 and 9 respectively.

As a test I inserted a Mag'ach 7A with the Milan III killing the tank then sending a missile down the throat of a rigid raider.

Again, I do not want the Milan III to fire on the rigid raider.

Any suggestions.
Just a suggestion, but at what range have you set your Milan to engage soft vehicles? Is the rigid raider within that range? I have learned to set my missile teams range for soft vehicles to zero, as they will fire at trucks and such, and maybe it is treating this boat as a soft target, even though it has armor?

Steves308
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Old May 26th, 2017, 07:22 PM
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Post Re: Israeli Assault Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steves308 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post
That Milan III team wasting a missile on a rubber raft continues to fester. Now, after setting armor front max and min settings above the values of my rigid raiders, that Milan III team continues to send a missiles at the rigid raider (armor rating 1 all around.)

The armor front max and min filters for the Milan III team are 255 and 9 respectively.

As a test I inserted a Mag'ach 7A with the Milan III killing the tank then sending a missile down the throat of a rigid raider.

Again, I do not want the Milan III to fire on the rigid raider.

Any suggestions.
Just a suggestion, but at what range have you set your Milan to engage soft vehicles? Is the rigid raider within that range? I have learned to set my missile teams range for soft vehicles to zero, as they will fire at trucks and such, and maybe it is treating this boat as a soft target, even though it has armor?

Steves308
Here is how I set the filters on that team.

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Old May 26th, 2017, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Israeli Assault Boats

None of which are boats.

The AI does its own thing on water missions, which is fine since those are rare as scenarios.

Many things could be contributing to the AI deciding to opfire at some boat but not another - is it full of passengers, is it moving close to an objective etc. Or it may well do one thing for one unit class but not for another.
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Old May 26th, 2017, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Israeli Assault Boats

Maybe you have found a bug setting armpr engagement range to zero, it should not engage anything but has a minimum fire range of 2. Might be a problem with the unit class though I dont rember my ATGMs firing at barges unless I set them to.

I would set it up as follows, standard saved setup, might adjust lower armor range for the opponent I am expecting.

255
9
35 - Milan range 40 depending on terrain but 35 or so a bit more accurate.
4 - if you let the enemy get that close may as well open up its going to get detected.
4 - as above might vary +_ 1
35 - I want it to fire at ATGM vehicles even if it misses a reaction shot could spoil its shot & save the target.

Unless they are included in formations I always buy units in the following order in defrence to game engine mechanics, prefer that than having formations with scouts etc as second unit.
Having similar units together makes setting filters simple do the formation & also makes finding simple, all AAA together makes cycle through who has a target using P & N keys fast.
Pet peeve finding FOOs in scenerios.

FOOs just for ease of finding could buy last
Squads Foot or truck
Squads Mech
If not part of company
Support weapons MGs etc
Scouts
Any additional support transport vehicles.

Tanks worst first if multiple types normaly so light and armored cars first, occasionaly if using for scouting might buy after main tanks.
ATGMs foot & vehicle
AAA normaly none radar first including MANPADs

Artillery
SEAD
Other air
Can buy after FOOs always artillery first in case you want to suppress AAA, just find it convineint as get arty percentage.

Cross attach to the respective companies and your good to go..
The game reaction fires top to bottom so setting up this way units you want to stay relayivly quite like scouts ATGMs only fire after the other units.

So vs a tank for example if a valid target firing order is
Squads
APCs
Scouts
Tanks
ATGM
AAA gun
Helicopters

Might end up wasting a bit of ammo with things like APCs firing AP with no hope but causes suppresion just in case your tank or ATGM misses giving them a better chance of surviving for a second shot.

Its purely taking advantage of the game mechanics but means you dont need to set up much.

HQ F00 range to 4 or so
Foo vehicle range reduced.
ATGM op filter
Tanks sometimes op filter.

This set up especialy if you have IFVs tanks only fire if they havent dealt with Enemy APCs & infantry so they dont get overly distracted anyway.
There are a few tanks that need micro mamaging & I would buy after ATGMs as there ammo load is critical.
Say 20 AP rounds that need point blank, rear shot or worse but have 3 effective HEAT rounds & mediocre targeting abilities.
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