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  #1  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:15 PM
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Fallout MBT's

Same thoughts as with APC and other threads started. Will focus on the new and major mods (Such as Jordan's PHEONIX program.)only. Trying to keep up with new armor packages etc. would be an absolute nightmare!
So here's a quick update on the long awaited Russian T-95:
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news81146.html
Take note of the key word "Could".
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think at least the turret will look similar to the NEW one that was designed for the "BLACK EAGLE" in the joint Russian and S. Korean venture that never got past the 2 prototypes that were built. Why? It's the only modern Russian tank/turret that was designed recently (And be in a 8 to 12 year drawing board to production window for the T-95.) to carry the 152mm gun that I can find.
Here it is:
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t12_black_eagle.htm and for further development background:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ussia/t-95.htm and yes I noted the 25 years development process.

BLACK EAGLE and POSIBLE T-95 Pic:
Click image for larger version

Name:	BLACK EAGLE PType for T95.jpg
Views:	1473
Size:	44.8 KB
ID:	9783 Click image for larger version

Name:	Possible T-95.jpg
Views:	2851
Size:	26.4 KB
ID:	9784

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  #2  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

I would like to know, about the T-95, where are they going to fit the rounds and how many. Unless the size of the tank increases or the crew gets even smaller, are we talking about less than 10 rounds?
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 02:09 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Well if the defencetalk.com purported picture of the T-95 is right, I can't shake the feeling the development of the
BLACK EAGLE continued. This wouldn't be the first military hardware that suffered that fate, went into a "Black Hole" and was brought back later in a further developed stage. Let's remember the turret for the BLACK EAGLE was of a completely new design. Also there were some reports that the BLACK EAGLE turret was unmanned as well. IF we assume dt.com somehow managed to get a T-95 pic and compare it to the known BLACK EAGLE pic the only difference I can see is the side mounted track armor. If it quacks it must be a duck. We'll see. As most know I'll keep digging, in the meantime here's another short article.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t95.htm
I would think the load out would be similar to the BLACK EAGLEs and others in the neighborhood of 30-40 rounds.
Hey if a guy named "Boris" comes around asking questions we could be on to something here!?!
Have a Great Weekend!
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Old April 18th, 2010, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll View Post
I would like to know, about the T-95, where are they going to fit the rounds and how many. Unless the size of the tank increases or the crew gets even smaller, are we talking about less than 10 rounds?
Well, let's not exaggerate. What I have read lists 34-36 rounds as planned storage for the 152mm armed tanks (T-95, Molot etc.), which seems reasonable.
Chances are that we will never know, the latest word is that the ax has fallen on the T-95.

Quote:
I personally think this is going to continue to be myth. They keep having to come up with new numbers as every tank that does come out is basically just a T-72 derivative.
Thing is, nobody is interested im something better than that.
The export customers have lined up in droves to buy it because it provides a very cost effective follow on to the T-72/T-55 and 60's western tanks which make up their tank fleets. Since most of them already operates T-72M there is also a bit of commonality. Anybody with the cash and desire for something better generally either buys western or make their own. By comparison the "better" T-80s attracted very limited interest, the only big sale was ukrainan T-84s to Pakistan and even then only because they could not obtain T-90 in first place.
As for Russia itself T-90s and modernized T-72s are sufficient against what the georgians or chinese can deploy.
T-95 would be really needed only against western MBTs but, even if we assume a confrontation (say, something along the lines of Georgia) with the West that does not end with Topol and Trident exchanges, contesting the air will have the priority and tank on tank egagements may not even take place.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 03:51 PM

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Default Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcello View Post
Thing is, nobody is interested im something better than that.
Never said they weren't or even that it wasn't prudent on the part of the Russians (and everyone else still churning out T-72 derivatives).

It was a comment on the need for Western defense watchers to, in my opinion, almost entirely fabricate these reports of super-gun tanks in order to have some flashy to talk about. Jane's for instance has touted out various rumors of this supposed 140mm-152mm gunned tank for some time now, despite the products generally being, as I noted, just standard gunned T-72 derivatives. They just upped the number when the T-90 came out and it wasn't one of these super-gun tanks. I believe the T-90 was at one point speculated to have been a reduced crew vehicle of some sort as well, following the US experiments of the late 1980s with tanks with full size guns in remote turrets.

This is pretty much the same story with Chinese tank related rumors. In 2003, Jane's suggested that the Chinese had an 152mm armed tank in the works. Since then, both the Type 98 and Type 99 have gone into series production and neither turned out to be armed with an 152mm gun.

These rumors have been circulating for over a decade, with the suggestion in the Russian case that the development had been going on for some 25-30 years in total. I'm just really skeptical any time these things are brought up for these reasons.

Last edited by thatguy96; April 18th, 2010 at 04:03 PM..
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Old April 19th, 2010, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy96 View Post
Never said they weren't or even that it wasn't prudent on the part of the Russians (and everyone else still churning out T-72 derivatives).

It was a comment on the need for Western defense watchers to, in my opinion, almost entirely fabricate these reports of super-gun tanks in order to have some flashy to talk about. Jane's for instance has touted out various rumors of this supposed 140mm-152mm gunned tank for some time now, despite the products generally being, as I noted, just standard gunned T-72 derivatives. They just upped the number when the T-90 came out and it wasn't one of these super-gun tanks. I believe the T-90 was at one point speculated to have been a reduced crew vehicle of some sort as well, following the US experiments of the late 1980s with tanks with full size guns in remote turrets.

This is pretty much the same story with Chinese tank related rumors. In 2003, Jane's suggested that the Chinese had an 152mm armed tank in the works. Since then, both the Type 98 and Type 99 have gone into series production and neither turned out to be armed with an 152mm gun.

These rumors have been circulating for over a decade, with the suggestion in the Russian case that the development had been going on for some 25-30 years in total. I'm just really skeptical any time these things are brought up for these reasons.
Well, it is a bit of a risk. Should customers start to demand in something radically better than T-90 the russian will not have anything ready in the pipeline. To be sure, this isn't going to happen tomorrow but development of a new MBT isn't instantaneous either.
I suppose that they came to the conclusion that the T-90 market niche and lack of interest in high end russian designs will last long enough to enable them to cook something new at leisurely pace. Which isn't unreasonable but they are taking a calculated risk, even if a limited one.
One has also to wonder how far advanced T-95 development was, it is possible that it was caught in the collapse halfway and never fully finished. I would not want to be foreign customer to sign for a delivery contract only to find out I have to shell out more and more money and wait for years for it to be ironed out. T-90 at least is tried and true.
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Old April 20th, 2010, 01:43 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcello View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy96 View Post
Never said they weren't or even that it wasn't prudent on the part of the Russians (and everyone else still churning out T-72 derivatives).

It was a comment on the need for Western defense watchers to, in my opinion, almost entirely fabricate these reports of super-gun tanks in order to have some flashy to talk about. Jane's for instance has touted out various rumors of this supposed 140mm-152mm gunned tank for some time now, despite the products generally being, as I noted, just standard gunned T-72 derivatives. They just upped the number when the T-90 came out and it wasn't one of these super-gun tanks. I believe the T-90 was at one point speculated to have been a reduced crew vehicle of some sort as well, following the US experiments of the late 1980s with tanks with full size guns in remote turrets.

This is pretty much the same story with Chinese tank related rumors. In 2003, Jane's suggested that the Chinese had an 152mm armed tank in the works. Since then, both the Type 98 and Type 99 have gone into series production and neither turned out to be armed with an 152mm gun.

These rumors have been circulating for over a decade, with the suggestion in the Russian case that the development had been going on for some 25-30 years in total. I'm just really skeptical any time these things are brought up for these reasons.
Well, it is a bit of a risk. Should customers start to demand in something radically better than T-90 the russian will not have anything ready in the pipeline. To be sure, this isn't going to happen tomorrow but development of a new MBT isn't instantaneous either.
I suppose that they came to the conclusion that the T-90 market niche and lack of interest in high end russian designs will last long enough to enable them to cook something new at leisurely pace. Which isn't unreasonable but they are taking a calculated risk, even if a limited one.
One has also to wonder how far advanced T-95 development was, it is possible that it was caught in the collapse halfway and never fully finished. I would not want to be foreign customer to sign for a delivery contract only to find out I have to shell out more and more money and wait for years for it to be ironed out. T-90 at least is tried and true.

For a second there I thought you were talking about the F-35 lol.
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  #8  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

I am sorry but where are you going to fit 40 rounds of 152mm? It seems highly unlikely there is room for that.

As for the black eagle photo, it looks shopped to me. Not only that, but they both look they are from the same type of tank.
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

To fit what we consider a normal load the turret would have to be unmanned or telescopic ammo would have to be used. An 152 AP shell will be a lot bigger than a 122 one so much so I think probably no choice but to have an auto loader.
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

Looks like Israel are starting to deploy their new 'Trophy' anti-missile system on Merkava MBTs.

article here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100402/..._of_the_future




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