Question about Corps Expéditionnaire Français en Extrême-Orient, French Indochina.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To add my two cents; I've also found several references to a "battle" in Dec. 1950 but as noted a month doesn't matter. What does is a year or two discrepancy as to when it was fielded by the French in the game. At Jan 1951 the case can be made for a change and the following refs will support your claim as to the planes that carried it for the French. I have other obligations to the "Boss" if he has time for them in Feb. so I can't take this on as noted already until the 2012/2013 campaign begins at the earliest. For the french wings site you might need to use the translator for the English version also for the Dien Bien Phu folks see the photo section and you'll know which one got my attention for the scenario.

http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v3/v3n1/frcoin.html
http://www.ffaa.net/history/wars-ope.../indochina.htm
http://www.aircraftcarrier.name/fran...hes/index.html
http://www.frenchwings.net/
http://www.frenchwings.net/indochina/gallery/index.php

I hear a noise on my roof, I better get to bed!!

Regards,
Pat

[Palle]

Originally Posted by scJazz

Actually, they more or less got in theater leftovers from Korea. OMFG it has a prop. Give it to the French in exchange for wine!

Ha ha ha ha.
The Indochina War is an intriguing study and struggle. Anyone thinking the French do not know war, should study it a bit.

[Palle]

I just notice, there is an A-26 and an Ouregan available from 1952 with Napalm, yet that is still not 1951 and I do not think that the French deployed any jets to Indochina. I only ever heard of props there. It is as if the effort there was second priority and only got second-hand equipment.

The A-26 is a very nice tactical bomber though, if there is one thing the Americans are good at, it is airpower.


On a similar note, I cannot see French halftracks in the oob for that period; yet they were used in Indochina (though amphibs were more important of course). Am I overlooking something?

And lastly, on a less serious note. The French deployed two armoured trains to Indochina. Is it possible to model them in a game such as this? If so I will have to do it myself, just for the fun of it.

[Palle]

Another question:
The French puppet state in S. Vietnam has support ships available, but the mgs can only fire forwards. I would think they would be in swivel mounts and be able to fire 360 degrees? As it is their use is thus limited.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I would've thought the French sourced references would've answered your questions, I see not. So for the French absolutely no jets and from the book I own HELL IN A VERY SMALL PLACE The Siege of Dien Bien Phu by Bernard B. Fall I will present only the fighters and bombers portion from Appendix C: The Role of Airpower page 485 of this great book;
Fighters
Fighter Group 1/22 "Saintonge"}
Fighter Group 2/22 "Languedoc"} F8F Bearcats (U.S)
3rd Carrier Assault Flotilla SB-2C Helldivers (U.S.)
(On Arromanches until April 30)
11th Carrier Fighter Flotilla F6F Hellcats (U.S.)
(On Arromanches until April 30)
14th Carrier Fighter Flotilla 18 F4U Corsairs (U.S.)
(On Belleau Wood, replacing
decimated 11th Flotilla on May 1)

Bombers
Bomber Group 1/25 "Tunisie" B-26 Marauders (U.S)
28th Bomber Flotilla (French Navy) PB4Y2 Privateers (U.S)
It continues on in order to list Transports, Recon, Lia. & Med Evac, Civilian and Additional transports flown.

At that battle 6 Bearcats actually provided close air support from the airfield there until it was rendered unusable and to the armor question it appears only two CHAFFEE tanks were there both having been flown in crated with final assembly done on site. What in the end killed the French in regards to air power was just the total lack of it especially in transport resupply capability. This mistake among others would not be repeated again in Algeria.
So this answers Jets-No Corsairs-yes but, only after the U.S. was finished with them near the end of a little war we were in, The Korean War. Or you can refer back to Post #11

Regards,
Pat

[Palle]

Hey Pat.

There were 12 "Bisons" from Bernard de Lattre de Tassigny's old Regiment, not two, at DBP. Only two or three still functioned at the surrender though.

As for the support boat (this should interest you). In 1946-47, the French rebuilt some captured German S-Boots to use at river patrols.
The changes were:
-Strenghtened bow
-Closed torp tubes and remove torps.
-Adding a twin mg at the front and two Bofors on the middle and back, all in swivel mounts.
So the French did have better support craft available than those in game- I always liked the S-Boots.

[scJazz]

Fastboat Tough,

Would it be safe to say that the changes needed are to add a napalm carrying variant of Helldiver, Hellcat and Bearcat available from Jan '51 until the aircraft is no longer in use? Corsairs are already covered which is what brought this subject up to start. Invaders could have dropped Napalm as well as C-47 transports which apparently they were using to throw Napalm over the side but for SPMBT purposes somehow I don't think that needs modelling.

If this is in fact the case I wouldn't mind helping. Or since I'm new at this I could just go sit in the corner and watch the masters at work

[Palle]

I have already added a napalm-carrying Helldiver to my own French OOB from 1-51. However, I am too nub to upload it for all to use. Sorry. The few others who will want the change before it is implemented must by necessity do it themselves; which is dead easy.


I have another question though, how do I add the S-Boot pic and Icon from SPWW2 to the SPMBT files so I can add those fast river patrols? As it is, I use the American MTB pic and Icon and though it works, it is not accurate.

Thanks.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

scJazz,
Yes to all; would in addition add A-26 INVADER and P-63C KING COBRA though it needs an end date to be sure first it would however support the bomb load though.

Though not an expert and I don't and do not want to get into the mechanics of the game for "building" anything, wouldn't it be easier for the DIEN BIEN PHU scenario and such if it was built as a campaign of each specific battle within the "battle" if you will? It seems game play would be smoother and take less time to develop to an end result.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

The P-63's were withdrawn from service in 1951.

Don