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  #21  
Old August 13th, 2005, 09:33 AM

Alpha Alpha is offline
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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany *DELETED*

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  #22  
Old August 13th, 2005, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

How long was the M8 in west German service??

Don
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  #23  
Old August 15th, 2005, 03:08 PM

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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

ca. 1960 i think, but not bundeswehr but bundesgrenzschutz ( BGS )
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  #24  
Old August 15th, 2005, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

Quote:
Alpha said:
ca. 1960 i think, but not bundeswehr but bundesgrenzschutz ( BGS )
so the M8 pictured in http://www.panzerbaer.de/archiv/seite_f.htm
was never used by West German military units only Police?

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  #25  
Old August 15th, 2005, 05:29 PM

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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

think so, but mind you BGS is paramilitary. they also were tasked in wartimes with semi military tasks. also in conflict WP - NATO they would be one of the first seeing the russians....

AFAIK the BW used M41 buldog as recon tank in the early times, than hotchkiss.
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  #26  
Old August 16th, 2005, 01:15 PM

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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

Quote:

Well there are much probs in the german OOB.

i corrected a few ones:

a) Mountain troops now have better exp + mor than normal grunts. they are now a little weaker than para but better than normal
b) Border guards ( which is meant "bundesgrenzschutz" i think ) should have also a bit better exp + mor then normal troops since these were no conscripts. Also they were in service minimun untill the fall of the wall.
c) PZH 2000 has now 1 more ROF ( also the question was asked above, if it should be also a bit more accurate and therefore a bit more expansive ? )
d) SP arty prices a bit changed ( 109 A3 was a bit too pricey for example )
e) Dornier 205 heli is now correct named "Bell UH 1D"
f) The ammo load f. SP mortars is correctd ( for example the hotchkiss SPmortar should have fewer ammo than the M113 )
g) The Luchs is now 1 size smaller and much faster than in the orig. OOB. there it was only 23 fast, much too low !

Shall i upload this OOB here ? I mean it is the minimun that everyone should have.

Your corrections sounds good. I also like the idea of KSK commandos or another Germany Special Force units. Just like for example British SAS which are included.Repricing units sound a bit risky though unitcostcalculator sucks sometimes (Look at prices of on-map BM-22 Uragan and HIMARS) Where can I download your OOB?

Few questions:

*Did you also add extra +3 to Mountain Scouts?
*Is Fuchs with mauser only equipped wiht HP ammos, not AP?
*Does anyone know anything about these Panzerfaust modifications

http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/panzerfaust3.html

Thanks!
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  #27  
Old August 16th, 2005, 06:18 PM

Alpha Alpha is offline
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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

hi friend,

i decided to not include the KSK, i have not enough knowledge about them. instead i incl. "standard" BGS troops. light inf with a bit better mor + exp. also i incl. bundesmarine divers (kampfschwimmer)...

1. mountain scouts get + 8 ( +5 geb.jaeger bonus + 3 scout bonus ).
2. you mean the fuchs 2 ? i did almost nothing to these future vehicles, since i more focus on present or ca. 20 years past.
3. these pz. faust 3 versions are quite new. i decided against the bunkerfaust since the normal pz. faust 3 is quite good already in the game. the other new version is a new warhead which should defeat ERA armor. i have no idea how to represent this double warhead at the pz.faust, so i leave this out also. but i tweaked the dates of all AT inf weapons: pzfaust3 avail a little later, both other models ( le. pzfaust44 + c. gustav have now longer service times, since the pz.faust 3 came not that fast to all troops, in fact i guess that some troops had to deal with the le. pz.faust quite a while even the pz.faust3 was produced already. )

hope this helps !
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  #28  
Old August 20th, 2005, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

Hi, everybody!

Alpha's German OOBS are now available for download at:
the Armorsite's WinSPMBT page;
or direcly, thru this link: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/WinS...OBpackV2.1.zip

Thank you Alpha, for sharing this excellent work with the WinSPMBT community.

Best regards for everyone,

Fab
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  #29  
Old August 20th, 2005, 01:33 PM

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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

Thanx to Fab for his permission to use his
excellent site.

Here a pic of the new arty screen:

http://www.alpha-q.de/AlphaOOBArtyScreen.jpg

Here a pic of the new misc screen:

http://www.alpha-q.de/AlphaOOBMiscScreen.jpg


Instructions:

Unzip to your CUSTOM ( ! ) OOB folder and select
this OOB with the tool "manage OOB" which is included in WinSPMBT.
To view pics unzip in folder of your choice and open with .jpg viewer
of your choice or internet browser.

Updates done:

Weapons added:
--------------

- HK 502 shotgun
- 2 police weapons
- Roland 2 AA missile

Units added:
-----------

- Polizei Trupp ( represent civil police but also "Feldjaeger of the Bundeswehr )
- Bundesgrenzschutz troops ( BGS - paramilitary German forces without conscripts so a bit better exp + morale than normal grunts - only light inf. weapons though )
- Luftwaffe Sicherung ( LW - Sich, these are LW troops mainly for the protection of airfields, Nato bunkers, radars, AA instalations etc. - light inf weapons, trucks and AA )
- Kampfschwimmer ( elite diver troops of the Bundesmarine )
- Engineer tank Dachs ( impr. version of PioPz. 1 )
- Roland 2 SPSAM ( impr. version of Roland 1 )
- AA MG unit ( Fla MG )
- Bulldozer ( Mehrzweck Raupe - use like eng. tanks )
- Armored trucks ( gep. LKW ) ( represents armored trucks like in use at the balcans KFOR )
- some fort types added
- modernized heavy helo
- Mountain guns have now also + 5 morale + exp.
- packmules for mountain troops added ( Germany uses them still AFAIK )
- 81 mm M3 halftrack instead 120mm ( early Bundeswehr )
- Kraka Para transport

Most of these units you´ll find in the "misc" folder.....

Mountain troops now have +5 mor + exp, PzH2000 upgraded with +1 ROF and some firecontrol for direct fire that they are capable of for self defense, but a bit more expensive, Bell UH1D has now correct name, SP mortars ammo loadout ( HS30 and Hotchkiss lowered, Hotchkiss was small tank! but M113 has more ammo ), Tampella mortars now have slightly better range + accuracy compared to older ones and are a bit more expensive, Alouette heli carry lowered, Luchs now is really usefull and represents better real capability of this tank, Wiesel 1 + 2 names and weapon loadout ( had too much missiles in orig. OOB ), Stinger is called Fliegerfaust 2 in Germany, impr. Hawk SAM date corrected ( became much later available as in orig. OOB ), Roland loadout now correct ( 2 missiles in launcher, 8 in magazine ), most names of arty and misc formations changed ..and much other stuff. ( for example i found a wiesel in the orig OOB with 21 (!!) TOW missiles - corrected to real loadout of 8 ! )
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  #30  
Old August 21st, 2005, 03:13 PM

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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

This migth be a problem. The PzGrKp in the mid-80's have a 7 man command element. However the Marder 1 A2 only takes 6. Is this correct? I can see that the A2+ with its MILAN kit would have less space than the A1, but why has the A2 one less carrying capacity than the A1?
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