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Old November 20th, 2010, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Originally Posted by Arralen View Post
U#153 105mm Section
- the "Feldhaubitze 105mm" is only used for salute any more. Most likely for decades (Artilleriereform '85 or something like that) EoS 2020 is obviously completly incorrect. http://www.deutschesheer.de/portal/a...%2Fcontent.jsp
I have arrived at this portion of the " to-do" list and I just want to say thanks for the perfectly useless URL that contributes nothing whatsoever to knowing WHEN the 105's stopped being used by front line troops.
Yeah, ain't that great .. someone must have removed most of the content. Did some digging for you, and that's what I found:

1985+ ... the 105mm where moved into (partly) inactive reserve units ("Heimatschutzbrigaden")
Bei der Artillerie sollte ab 1985 die Erhöhung der Geschützzahlen von 6 auf 9 Rohre und Verminderung um eine Feuerbatterie das vorhandene und durch Zulauf der Feldhaubitze 70 vermehrte Gerät ohne personellen Mehraufwand optimal nutzen. Das Rohrbataillon einer Division wuchs dabei auf 36 Geschütze an. Mit freiwerdenden älteren Kampfpanzern, Mannschaftstransportwagen M 113 und den Feldhaubitzen 105 mm der Korpsartillerie wurden die sechs Heimatschutzkommandos der Wehrbereiche zu "schweren" Kampfverbänden umstrukturiert (Panzerbataillon aktiv, Panzerbataillon teilaktiv, Jägerbataillon MTW, Jägerbataillon LKW, Feldartilleriebataillon 105 mm plus selbstständige Kompanien). Diese neuen teilaktiven Heimatschutzbrigaden Nr. 51 bis 56 ...

1993 .. gone !
"Feldhaubitzen dieses Kalibers befinden sich bei der Bundeswehr aber seit Anfang der neunziger Jahre nicht mehr im aktiven Truppendienst.

Most likely with "Heeresstruktur V (ab 1993)"
the units where disbanded/merged and the equipment removed from service, like e.g.
" FArtBtl.515 Kellinghusen LeFH-105mm A2 1993 Zusammen mit FArtBtl.185 Umbenennung in PzArtBtl.515
("merged and renamed to Armored Arty Bat." means they got M109 most likely) http://www.panzer-modell.de/referenz...ne/ari/ari.htm

So I would put the end date, if you want to model the reserve units at least somewhat, to 31.12.1992 or 30.6.1993 with some leeway for reorganisation.

Originally Posted by Arralen View Post
U#495-499 "Mtn. Scouts"
- are basically duplicates to U#420-424 "Gebirgsjaeger" (which are properly named, at least)
1/ Any non english naming in this or any other OOB has been added on the assumption that it will be easily interpreted by everybody, not just Germans. For good or bad we are living with that experiment in winSPWW2 and will not be repeating it in MBT.

2/ "basically duplicates"??. really ? Please explain how a 3 man scout team with reduced weaponry "basically duplicates" a 9 man infantry section.
1/ .. sorry, what are you trying to tell me - that you're going to keep that german names? I surely won't object to this, but maybe you want things to be consistent, and switch all the "Mtn. Scouts" and "Mtn. Snipers" to "Gebirgsjaeger" or, as there actually are(!) units named "Gebirgsaufklaerer" (or "Gebirgsaufkl."), to the latter!

2/ Sorry, bad wording. Was in a hurry. Apart from that, see 1/
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Old November 21st, 2010, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

Thanks for the info on the 105. There was nothing anywhere on that in English and I tried every search combination I could think of. I had tentatively made the cut off 1996 but will adjust it back to June 1993.

I'm also still trying to find something other than a Wiki quote about the 155 towed arty OOS date. Understand that removing towed arty from the OOB means picklist changes which is fine, but I want to be rock solid on the dates before doing that because it's a PITA.

As for German names as I explained I have and will keep some but I'm not going to turn it into the winSPWW2 German OOB. The German language , as you well know, likes to string words together forming words much longer than the game likes and that in itself is one problem but it's the abbreviations that make it difficult in some case to ensure they are clear as to their meaning and I'm debating if "GebJg Spaeher" is clear to the average gamer ( it's clear to me but that's irrelevant, abbreviations are always clear to the one making them )so it may end up Germlish "GebJg Scout"

I also have an issue with one of your other statements

b) equipment is duplicated, like having Milan-III in PzGr squads, and another Milan squad in the same platoon
there are NO ATGM in any PzGr section in the German OOB...none. There is one ( 1 ) in a Para support section that makes up one part of para platoons from 1996 on. Therefore there are no platoons that have more than one ATGM per platoon and there is only one platoon like that

Other than that most of the issues have been dealt with along with the manpower issues in the MRAV formations

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