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  #1  
Old July 22nd, 2018, 12:34 AM

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Default A proposal for sewer movement

A standard for simulating sewer movement in urban areas

While the WINSP series has no movement via sewers in city battles, I propose a work-around that could be consistently used in scenario design.

1. Main road intersections (grey) of three or four roads would be considered to contain sewer entrances. The yellow lines of these intersections do not connect in the intersection leaving a small blank space that can be visually noticeable to a scenario designer.
2. In order for a side to use sewer travel the side must have sewer entrance/exit intersections within their starting area. A particular sewer intersection can only connect to the other entrance/exit intersections along that road section.
3. In Attacker scenarios an attacking element chosen to make a sewer infiltration would be assigned to a sewer exit via the Reinforcement Hex method. The % should be low 10%-15% and the first opportunity to appear can be a calculation of distance from the 'entrance' hex with a 2-3 hex movement rate per turn to the 'exit' hex. Multiple elements using the same route (example, a three squad recon platoon) could have an additional 2 turn delay to spread out the arrivals. (example, unit B0 scheduled to start % to enter as reinforcement on turn 6, B1 turn 8, B2 turn 10).
4. Defenders could be programmed to use sewer movement to launch raids to appear inside the attacker's perimeter.
5. Human players during setup would need to consider booby-trapping/barb wiring/mining sewer intersections when informed that sewer movement operations is part of the mission or warned that the enemy may try to use it.
6. Scenario design should make sure two opposing forces are not simulating using the same sewer route.

What do you think?
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: A proposal for sewer movement

I have to say my knowledge of sewer combat in history is very limited.
Gaming wise there are very few games that have it.
There are first person shooters which for a while they almost always had it, or at least it felt that way. But that was mostly in the late 90s to early 00s. There are RPGs (as in role playing games) which had/have it. But strategy/wargame games...The closest thing is the underground levels in the Age of Wonders series, Master of Magic and other similar strategy games with rpg elements, all in the fantasy setting. Usually it's more like dungeons but...yeah.
I do remember of another game, non fantasy, having it but for the life of me right now I can't remember (heh) which one.
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 11:27 AM
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Default Re: A proposal for sewer movement

The first use of Sewers in board games (IIRC) was Squad Leader and then ASL (Advanced Squad Leader). The only nations that allowed them were the Russians and Partisans (others only my SSR - Special Scenario Rules). Essentially a squad or multi-man counter (half squad) and/or a leader would have to pass a morale check (MC), to enter the sewer, then they could move 3 hexes undetected and then in the close combat phase they could pop up (rolled to see if they got lost - eliminated). Mostly used in Stalingrad situations and also Berlin or Warsaw ones if I remember correctly.


SPI's Sniper or Patrol may have used it, but those were single man per counter games.
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 11:38 AM

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Default Re: A proposal for sewer movement

John Tiller's Squad Battles games has sewer movement.
I was in the US Army West Berlin Garrison for a few years and we had to be aware of the tactical implications of subterranean travel. Sewers and underground trains would not be avenues for large formations but squad and platoon sized incursions are more practical. A small recon force that could infiltrate and setup an observation post to call in artillery could be very detrimental to an operation.
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: A proposal for sewer movement

We have a sewer grate in MBT and WW2 as a fortification and in scenarios they can be used to hide troops or as points for re-enforcements.

In MBT they are in the PLO, Yugo-Serbia, Bosnia and Croatian OOB's

EDIT

They were primarily added for scenario design, you could put units into them that could pop out when needed..more for the AI than the human player but it works for both. They have large "crews" to be durable (but that can be edited up or down in a scenario )even though they have a lot of "armour". Hindsight suggests they would have been better added to one of the non nation OOB's in both games and let them be drawn from there but they were first added to WW2 DOS v6 15 years ago and it seemed a good idea at the time..I'm not sure if they are even used at all in a scenario as they are only available for use during the time period of the Battle for Stalingrad in Germany and Russia WW2 and the time period of the Warsaw uprising in the Polish OOB...in MBT they run the full length for the OOB's that have them
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Old July 24th, 2018, 05:56 PM

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Default Re: A proposal for sewer movement

Always felt sewer movement was a realistic and practical practice in warfare, and should be implemented in the game for all countries. Maybe it should be restricted to just commando type units.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: A proposal for sewer movement

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Originally Posted by Dion View Post
Always felt sewer movement was a realistic and practical practice in warfare, and should be implemented in the game for all countries. Maybe it should be restricted to just commando type units.
Unless you surprise the enemy, isn't it like ridiculously easy to defend against it?
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Old July 24th, 2018, 09:14 PM

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Default Re: A proposal for sewer movement

Relatively easy as a defender but even with just two sentries on each opening the manpower requirements can be a drain. If you booby trap the sewers you deny yourself using them for communication, casualty evacuation or routes to reinforce or evacuate surrounded pockets of resistance.
For the attacker they offer a worthwhile avenue to exploit if missed by the defender.
For both it is an aspect of military warfare that is ignored with risk.

From the Warsaw uprising:
"From that point on, “sewer paranoia” developed among the German forces in Warsaw. The Germans lived in constant anxiety that resistance fighters had the ability to come out of the sewers unexpectedly and to strike at German positions from the rear."

"... From the Zoliborz district we set out on far reaching reconnaissance missions to the Wola and Ochota districts."




I am currently testing the game play. The fact that the sewer unit has a crew of 6 adds an oddness to the concept. If I hide a RPG team in a sewer (set for a 10% chance of appearing as a reinforcement after turn 5) the team usually appears turns 7-10 but after they leave the sewer I can then bailout the crew and have six guys with pistols running around which seems a little goofy.

Last edited by jp10; July 24th, 2018 at 09:26 PM..
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Old July 25th, 2018, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: A proposal for sewer movement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp10 View Post
Relatively easy as a defender but even with just two sentries on each opening the manpower requirements can be a drain. If you booby trap the sewers you deny yourself using them for communication, casualty evacuation or routes to reinforce or evacuate surrounded pockets of resistance.
For the attacker they offer a worthwhile avenue to exploit if missed by the defender.
For both it is an aspect of military warfare that is ignored with risk.

From the Warsaw uprising:
"From that point on, “sewer paranoia” developed among the German forces in Warsaw. The Germans lived in constant anxiety that resistance fighters had the ability to come out of the sewers unexpectedly and to strike at German positions from the rear."

"... From the Zoliborz district we set out on far reaching reconnaissance missions to the Wola and Ochota districts."




I am currently testing the game play. The fact that the sewer unit has a crew of 6 adds an oddness to the concept. If I hide a RPG team in a sewer (set for a 10% chance of appearing as a reinforcement after turn 5) the team usually appears turns 7-10 but after they leave the sewer I can then bailout the crew and have six guys with pistols running around which seems a little goofy.
I don't disagree with you, though I am not sure if using the Warsaw uprising is an endorsement or not.
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