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  #11  
Old September 9th, 2018, 10:37 AM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: Spanish OOB32 and OOB33 v.11 (2018)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
449,450 CB Protegido, CB Valencia - they should receive bigger icons, being converted trucks (I'll try to find some)
449 CB Protegido - early armoured truck (Camion Protegido) from the 20s for colonial service (truck No.2 https://elfarodeceuta.es/los-primero...to-espanol-ii/ - sometimes captioned as Nash-Quad).
Best icon for the car pictured seems 3445 - current is a small car (and they were usually grey - "Estos camiones protegidos, nombre oficial que recibían, estaban pintados en gris" http://www.panzernet.com/articulos/h...rossps1_gh.htm)
Size should be 3 [now 2].
Used at least until 1934 (Asturia revolt).

It's a detail, but I'd lower its speed to 12-13 [now 14] - there are no data given anywhere, but it was early truck with 40 HP engine and extensive armour.. Most typical Nash-Quad and Latil were built upon 4x4 chassis, although I don't know if these heavy vehicles had off-road capabilities actually.

(BTW: it isn't clear if this peculiar vehicle on the photo wasn't a single one, most typical were boxy bodies on Latils chassis and others http://www.panzernet.com/articulos/h...rossps1_gh.htm, http://elrinconsapiente.blogspot.com...o-espanol.html, https://www.militar.org.ua/militar/t...n-Melilla.html ).


450 CB Valencia - a photo is Oteyza car, built in one unit, not much known http://www.panzernet.com/articulos/h...rossps1_gh.htm (there rather isn't known a specific car Valencia, which is a city name).

Maybe it's worth to replace it with Field armoured car from Barcelona, built in quite a long series of around 10 units? http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...ructora-field/
For rounded Field, similar icon would be ADGZ: 4023 or green 4024

Quote:
451 CB T-69 - it was built upon T-69 truck, but it was known as MC-36 ..
Main armament in a turret was clearly 7mm Hotchkiss (BMGs were possibly in sides)
...Size might be 4, although it's an exception for armoured cars - it was very big.
Picture as for its size http://minairons-news.blogspot.com/2...st-update.html

Same for Spain OOB33 unit 564 MC-36/T-26 - a variant with T-26 turret. It should rather have DT CMG instead of Lewis BMG (it had no BMG).
Spain also should have a basic MG-armed variant.

In both OObs they have different icon. Given its size and grey color, best seems 4329 (or smaller 3461)

452 CB FA-I - first delivered on 15 October 36 ('Komsomol' ship) [now 9/36] ("Blindados en Espana" book).

Quote:
453 CB UNL-35 - icon is a half-track car, best seems 90 with sticking out fenders. It also had a BMG (DT?)
"Production started in early 1937... It is reported that they first saw service in the May Events in Barcelona, 1937" [now 9/36] - http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/Spain/UNL-35 and other sources

Speed was only 55 km/h according to "Blindados en Espana" [now 28] (even 50 km/h according to the page above)

Captured vehicles could be added to Spanish OOB (a couple moths later I guess). There are even some photos of captured vehicles http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/Spain/UNL-35

Quote:
454 CB Bilbao M 32 - size is too small (2) - they were high box-like vehicles http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...o-modelo-1932/ Crew was 3 according to that page, but it could take 5 more men.
Speed is quoted to be only 50 km/h (now 24!)
MG was 7mm Hotchkiss (Spain rather didn't use 7.5mm FM at all).
Better icon is 3445 (upper view http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/...TMuanBn/?ref=1) - current is a narrow halftrack.

Same for Nationalist unit 288.

455,456 CB Modelo 37 - known as AAC-1937. Produced from 4/37, used from May [now 2/37] http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...n/AAC-1937.php The one with 45mm gun was a rare variant, should probably start later, using cannibalized turrets (by the end of 1937?), and should also have DT CMG.
Quite common early variant was also with BMG and French 37 mm gun (however their barrels are apparently longer, than Puteaux SA-18 tank gun or TR-16 infantry gun... Maybe Soviet Hotchkiss, with some better performance?)

The same for Spain OOB33 unit 290 CB Modelo 39 - name "39" seems wrong. They rather had standard Soviet 45mm gun in T-26 turret, not 47mm gun. Sure they were used earlier, than 4/39 (with several month delay to the republican side?). Probably captured MG-armed cars were more common.

BTW: several 37mm-armed and MG-armed cars ended up in France and were used in action in 6/40 (confirmed in Trackstory 20).

Quote:
475 Trubia M 26 A1 - better known as Trubia A4 (eg https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanque_Ligero_Trubia,
http://elrinconsapiente.blogspot.com...o-espanol.html says there were tanks A-1...A-4 (despite most sources use A4 for all series), so maybe the most precise name would be "Trubia serie A", as sources also use (including "Blindados en Espana" book).
  #12  
Old September 9th, 2018, 10:39 AM

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Default Re: Spanish OOB32 and OOB33 v.11 (2018)

Spain OOB33:

29 SdKfz 223 (Fu) - photo is SdKfz 221, could be 27523

287 CB FA-I - if they were delivered in 10/36 to Republic, it seems it should take a couple months before they were captured and reused.. [now 9/36] Same for 289 CB BA-6 delivered at the same time.

294, 304 CCI Tipo 1937 - I've found no information, that MG-only armed variant existed, only 20mm one is described. Anyway, it was one prototype, so the first entry should end before the second one. BMG was actually twin 7 mm Hotchkiss.
Speed was only 36 km/h [now 15] - "Blindados en Espana" book and http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...CI-Tipo-37.php

298,299 CL T-26 (E) - better photo with Nationalist markings is 18083 (as unit 295)

301 Verdeja I - with is extremely low profile, size might be 2 - http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...n/verdeja-no-1
CMGs should be twin, not separate.
The only prototype was tested already from 1/39 [now 4/39]

306 Verdeja II - it's actually Verdeja SPG http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...7540mm-verdeja , not Verdeja II http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...n/verdeja-no-2 (which was a prototype tank from 8/44)
Verdeja SPG was rebuilt from Verdeja I not earlier, than in May 1945

409,410 CTV Lancia IZ, IZM - according to "Blindados en Espana" book, both variants disembarked on 22 December 36 [now 6/36 and 2/37]. Armament of Lancia IZM was two independent MGs in a turret and rear MG. Now it has twin MG and a BMG, but turret MGs were individually operated, so maybe they should be single #228 TMG, while rear MG had no practical usage apart from withdrawing. Lancia IZ has a single 6.5mm MG now, but it should have two as well. It also had a single smaller top MG turret, but it isn't clear if they were mounted anymore.
Better icon is 1494, more similar and with two machine guns.
Crew according to that book and https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia_1Z was 6 (as in Italian OOB).

Same for units 415,416 Lancia IZ, IZM (which use different icon BTW)

BTW: same for Italian OOB units 65,66 Lancia IZ, IZM as for icon (or variants 1495, 1497) and weapons

346 Infanteria Azul - a minor thing, but a picture are German FJg with their specific helmets

That should be all for Spains.

Last edited by Pibwl; September 9th, 2018 at 03:29 PM..
  #13  
Old September 20th, 2018, 02:53 PM

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Default Re: Spanish OOB32 and OOB33 v.11 (2018)

I've noticed one more thing, while reading Polish article on German attack aircraft:

Spain OOB33:
378 He 51 Cadenas, 379 CASA C- 51 - bomb load 500kg is impossible for this plane (all useful load was 440 kg) - and the quoted article explicitly says, that He 51 were first used by Nationalists as pure strafers, then Legion Condor started to employ them with 6x10 kg bombs (the same load in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_51) - from early 1937, I guess? (the Legion arrived in November).

From late 1937 there was produced attack variant He 51C-1 with 4x50 kg bombs, which appeared in Spain, but I don't know when.

BTW: I think that name CASA is not justified, since they weren't manufactured in Spain; neither Spanish Wikipedia uses it https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_51


Same for German OOB unit 340 He 51 - early one could use 6x10 kg bombs at best [now 2x50 kg]

Apparently the same for Bulgarian unit 157 He 51 Sokol - they were He 51B (Bulgarian book "Air Power of the Kingdom of Bulgaria" vol.3 indicates 2 MGs only anyway, so it isn't clear if they had bomb racks at all...)

Spain:
374 Ju 87B1 Stupido, 375 CASA C-87B - typical single bomb was 500 kg, 1000 kg could be carried with overload (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87) - and I don't know if such heavy bombs wee used in Spain, anyway typical variant might be better.

BTW: it isn't clear, if they and 376 CASA C-87G were used in Spain after SCW at all - Legion Condor ones returned to Germany, and it is strange, that Spanish Wikipedia doesn't list Spain among users at all... https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87. Neither Wings Palette lists any Spanish color profiles apart from SCW http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/29/67

370, 371 Breda Ba.65 - although Italian Wikipedia says "1000 kg (carico teorico)" (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_Ba.65) but in fact according to articles they could take 4 x max 100kg in a bomb bay (though usually it was 4x50kg). Spanish Wikipedia confirms 50 and 100 kg bombs https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_Ba.65 - and doesn't mention, that Bredas were used after SCW...

Last edited by Pibwl; September 20th, 2018 at 05:12 PM.. Reason: further info on a/c
  #14  
Old September 21st, 2018, 02:58 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: Spanish OOB32 and OOB33 v.11 (2018)

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Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
374 Ju 87B1 Stupido, 375 CASA C-87B - typical single bomb was 500 kg, 1000 kg could be carried with overload (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87) - and I don't know if such heavy bombs wee used in Spain, anyway typical variant might be better.

BTW: it isn't clear, if they and 376 CASA C-87G were used in Spain after SCW at all - Legion Condor ones returned to Germany, and it is strange, that Spanish Wikipedia doesn't list Spain among users at all... https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87. Neither Wings Palette lists any Spanish color profiles apart from SCW http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/29/67
Polish article on Spain and Portugal during WW2 lists aircraft bought by Spain along with other equipment in 1943: 15 Bf 109F, 10 Ju 88 and 12 Do 24T - doesn't mention Ju 87.
Neither it was used by Esc. Azul https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escuadrilla_Azul

BTW:482 25mm Canon AT - bought in 1943 (no mention about eventual earlier deliveries)

489 75mm PaK40 Azul - they were also bought by Spain in 1943, not only used by Azul

According to the article, Spain also bought 150 ex-Soviet 122mm canons and ZB-37 HMGs.

372 Reparto G.50bis - Spain didn't use fighter-bomber G.50bis, only pure G.50 pre-series fighters left after SCW: Una vez concluidas las hostilidades, estos aparatos quedaron en manos españolas y constituyeron, junto con los Heinkel He 112, el Regimiento Mixto de África, basado en Nador. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_G.50
So it should be strafer only, possibly used earlier.
(I'm not sure why Reparto G.50 instead of just Fiat - the same unit 362)
  #15  
Old September 26th, 2018, 12:14 PM

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Default Re: Spanish OOB32 and OOB33 v.11 (2018)

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Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
Spanish Republic

380 Esc de F.Amet - Maxim LMG should rather be 7.92mm (MG 08/15)
Self-correction: it may be 7.62mm Maxim-Tokarev LMG indeed.
I'm attaching some clearer photos, and others, that might be useful.

(there was also used a big number of Czech vz.26 LMG, but I don't know if it's worth bother to create another unit)
---

402 Super Chato - photo is ordinary I-15 Chato. I've found only one photo of I-15bis described as Spanish (attached)

---
Photo of 76mm M.1909 mountain gun is lacking in the game, apart from Rep. Spanish OOB, Romanian OOB uses for unit 133 different 76mm M.1910 short gun.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Republican&Spain.zip (1.38 MB, 28 views)
  #16  
Old November 1st, 2018, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Spanish OOB32 and OOB33 v.11 (2018)

[

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
156 210mm Canon, - no mention on such antique pieces ...
http://www.amonio.es/mortero_mata_21cm.htm

Quote:
they were used by the national side in the autumn of 1936 to cover their right flank while advancing towards Madrid. Apparently they came from the 1st Costa de Cádiz Regiment that were located in the Isla de las Palomas, as a defense of Costa (Excerpted from the book by Artemio Mortera and José Luis Infiesta "The Artillery in the Civil War. Campaign, Quiron Ediciones ").

These mortars were emplaced in November 1936 next to the town of Toledo Mocejón, and near there, precisely, is where the copy of the photograph has been located.

Apparently, the Republican side had several copies of this mortar, one of them in Madrid and four in San Sebastian, which were captured by the nationals to conquer the city.

TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS:
Caliber 21 centimeters
Cannon length: 1633 millimeters
Length of the anima: 1150 millimeters
Number of stripes: 50 to destrorsum
Cannon weight: 815 kilograms
Weight of the product: 830 kilograms
Closure: Three smooth sectors and three threaded.
Reach: 3890 meters
Initial speed: from 85.3 to 215 meters (depending on load)
Projectile: The same as the Plasencia Obed of 21 cm.
Projectile Weight: 78.7
Height: 620 mm
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