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  #31  
Old August 17th, 2018, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Merkava invincible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp View Post
It’s vital to take out the infantry screen first and ignore the tanks otherwise your infantry won’t get close.
Fairly open map Israel has balanced combat team.
Infantry around 500m in front of vehicles, they have higher experience will spot the enemy before can close for RPG range.
If they took Mech infantry armed with 2lmg, APCs have multiple MG to, Merk can be set to engage infantry at say 400m but add its firepower in player turn vs infantry.

Iran therefore try not to engage piecemeal need the overwhelming numbers or the firepower coming your way will decimate the troops. Smoke still helps versus infantry eyes if bump heads piecemeal could try dropping and falling back.

Iran needs to think, flank shot possibility will they avoid cluttered areas manovering allowing for flank shots. Could be worth while keeping a platoon or 2 of infantry as spotters for your tanks. They enter hex to check LOS for your tanks who are playing a sniping game against the APCs, tanks roll is very much aid the infantry by taking out there’s and supporting vehicles.
Avoid the Merks unless flank shot possibility or infantry has closed to range and need all the help they can get.
Keep in mind Israel may become vulnerable if try to sweep round in an effort to destroy running troops, the one problem they have is being overwhelmed.
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  #32  
Old August 18th, 2018, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Merkava invincible?

Another thing to remember about suppressing non-entrenched infantry ... machineguns and mortars are your friends!

It can also be worthwhile to sometimes use cheap APCs as bait for enemy armor, both to locate it and draw it's fire before you move other units to actually enguage it.
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  #33  
Old August 21st, 2018, 10:36 PM
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Post Re: Merkava invincible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp View Post
It’s vital to take out the infantry screen first and ignore the tanks otherwise your infantry won’t get close.
Fairly open map Israel has balanced combat team.
Infantry around 500m in front of vehicles, they have higher experience will spot the enemy before can close for RPG range.
If they took Mech infantry armed with 2lmg, APCs have multiple MG to, Merk can be set to engage infantry at say 400m but add its firepower in player turn vs infantry.

Iran therefore try not to engage piecemeal need the overwhelming numbers or the firepower coming your way will decimate the troops. Smoke still helps versus infantry eyes if bump heads piecemeal could try dropping and falling back.

Iran needs to think, flank shot possibility will they avoid cluttered areas manovering allowing for flank shots. Could be worth while keeping a platoon or 2 of infantry as spotters for your tanks. They enter hex to check LOS for your tanks who are playing a sniping game against the APCs, tanks roll is very much aid the infantry by taking out there’s and supporting vehicles.
Avoid the Merks unless flank shot possibility or infantry has closed to range and need all the help they can get.
Keep in mind Israel may become vulnerable if try to sweep round in an effort to destroy running troops, the one problem they have is being overwhelmed.
Israeli armor - the Merks - have a decided weakness in their rear due to the rear hatch for infantry mounts or crew rescue. Also, she may store additional rounds in that rear compartment. An infantry AT shot there could be devastating.


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  #34  
Old August 22nd, 2018, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Merkava invincible?

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Originally Posted by shahadi View Post

Israeli armor - the Merks - have a decided weakness in their rear due to the rear hatch for infantry mounts or crew rescue. Also, she may store additional rounds in that rear compartment. An infantry AT shot there could be devastating.

You come out with some odd statements at times, said need rear or flank shots, also mentioned if complacent and leave it open it’s a big vulnerability.
Normal operations not really every tank is weak in the rear and has weak spots, most due to engine and cooling needs. Check this but pretty sure more Abrams have been disabled by errant 30mm fire from Bradley’s to the rear than enemy fire.
The hatch is no worse may be better it’s inset you would have to be in the rear 30 degree arc or so not just behind it to target it.

On your American Armor is best occurred to me from European tank trials either the US tankers are a bit slower or the tank is at acquiring targets. My guess Leopard target acquisition is faster as the highest ranking countries are in them. Sad to say as I am British the once dominant Challenger needs upgrading in this area and a new gun from their results.

Not a lot in it I am sure but peer to peer combat I would like to be in the tank with the ability to get off the first aimed shot.

Israel are looking like they will be the first country with full buttoned up capability once R&D is done, hopefully they don’t come to rely on the sensors to much so they can still operate when they are damaged.
They are plastering the tank with sensors in an effort to locate and kill targets as fast as possible, info relayed by battle net, computer takes over and fires if targeting computer is idle.
Already have to a degree but want better coverage (radar?) and even faster response, currently they have to press one button for the computer to take over and return fire.
Part of this is camera tracking linked to helmets as used on top line fighter planes so infantry friend foe detection (slow compared to vehicles) can be sped up and to prevent tank commanders becoming sniper magnets when they stick their heads out.
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  #35  
Old August 22nd, 2018, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: Merkava invincible?

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Israel are looking like they will be the first country with full buttoned up capability once R&D is done, hopefully they don’t come to rely on the sensors to much so they can still operate when they are damaged.
Isn't Armata the first tank with this trait?
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  #36  
Old August 22nd, 2018, 08:11 PM
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Post Re: Merkava invincible?

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Quote:
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Because Merkava tanks are invincible? I tested Iran against Israel and nothing can against the young Merkava, maybe some Kornet borrowed from the Russians can make some scratch.
I am not too sure about that - Merkava invincibility. Against the Iranians they may or should dispatch their tanks easily, although the Iranians got upgraded T-72s and some T-80's packages (some domestically made and others Russian).

So, I say it is the crews that count, or make a difference. And, with crews it is experience that is salient.

No tank in the world has more battle experience than the Abrams. Her crews are first rate - top notch battle tested and trained from the dense forests of Louisiana to the Mohave Desert.

In a test with the Merkava, remember Israeli tank crews have not fought a armor vs armor battle since 1973. In the past 40 years or so, her tank crews including the Merkava were used as self-propelled artillery in battles against essentially light infantry opponents.

In a test of the Merkava, to assess her battle worthiness, put her up against Abrams, and Leopards, but significantly reducing her experience level in MobHack on account of her lack of battle experience.

Another factor to consider, is that Americans and NATO train to fight heavy armor formations with armor, while Israel does not have any opponents with armor. Secondly, Israel has adopted a policy using overwhelming firepower of her air force to decimate Iranian armor formations - or anyone else - before those formations could come close to Israel proper.

Israel's power is in her air force. Unless, her air force is checked, her tank crews won't even have to button up.

And, finally what is somewhat difficult to simulate in our game is the role of the Merkava, in that she is designed to protect the crew, provide armor in a defensive mode, and in counterinsurgency and urban operations. Put her intended role up against a tank designed to fight fast moving armor on armor battles and the contest may not be optimistic for the Merkava side.

Oh, hey Roman what is up with your signature? Everyone knows who won the 2014 World Cup and it was not Argentina. And, Germany may have had a better chance to win it again in 2018 if only they had treated Mesut Ozil as the talented midfielder he is.

Some of the things you mention are a bit off to say the least. I am not in the mood to go into detail but...dude!

Really, please go into detail. If obliged, reply in private.


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  #37  
Old August 22nd, 2018, 08:13 PM
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Post Re: Merkava invincible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post

Israeli armor - the Merks - have a decided weakness in their rear due to the rear hatch for infantry mounts or crew rescue. Also, she may store additional rounds in that rear compartment. An infantry AT shot there could be devastating.


You come out with some odd statements at times, said need rear or flank shots, also mentioned if complacent and leave it open it’s a big vulnerability.
Normal operations not really every tank is weak in the rear and has weak spots, most due to engine and cooling needs. Check this but pretty sure more Abrams have been disabled by errant 30mm fire from Bradley’s to the rear than enemy fire.
The hatch is no worse may be better it’s inset you would have to be in the rear 30 degree arc or so not just behind it to target it.

On your American Armor is best occurred to me from European tank trials either the US tankers are a bit slower or the tank is at acquiring targets. My guess Leopard target acquisition is faster as the highest ranking countries are in them. Sad to say as I am British the once dominant Challenger needs upgrading in this area and a new gun from their results.

Not a lot in it I am sure but peer to peer combat I would like to be in the tank with the ability to get off the first aimed shot.

Israel are looking like they will be the first country with full buttoned up capability once R&D is done, hopefully they don’t come to rely on the sensors to much so they can still operate when they are damaged.
They are plastering the tank with sensors in an effort to locate and kill targets as fast as possible, info relayed by battle net, computer takes over and fires if targeting computer is idle.
Already have to a degree but want better coverage (radar?) and even faster response, currently they have to press one button for the computer to take over and return fire.
Part of this is camera tracking linked to helmets as used on top line fighter planes so infantry friend foe detection (slow compared to vehicles) can be sped up and to prevent tank commanders becoming sniper magnets when they stick their heads out.
Where is Gingertanker?
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  #38  
Old August 23rd, 2018, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Merkava invincible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeraaa View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp View Post
Israel are looking like they will be the first country with full buttoned up capability once R&D is done, hopefully they don’t come to rely on the sensors to much so they can still operate when they are damaged.
Isn't Armata the first tank with this trait?
Big remote weapon station not the same thing, can see advantages to this and fits Russian low profile thinking though it’s now quite a big body from the side compared to older designs.
I would like to know if smaller lighter turret means they get far faster turret traverse as their is less mass to move.
Getting info on them is very hard certainly it’s a modern setup and has a defensive system and external video coverage. Since Thales I think it was shared the technology Russia has certainly caught up the West in the acquisition, targeting and the hunter killer areas though I still think they are behind.

Yes where is ginger tanker be nice to get a nod yes ot no on what the Merk is really capable of.

Armata hard kill system and Iron Fist (not trophy) are supposed to be effective against AP rounds as well due to bigger explosive knocking the projectile off axis so it losses it’s power or shatters on impact.
Bit sceptical and how many rounds can it carry, also reload time trophy is blindingly quick.
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  #39  
Old August 23rd, 2018, 02:10 AM
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Default Re: Merkava invincible?

Given that modern turrets tend to use a power traverse I doubt if the speed of the traverse is much of an issue any more, unless you're looking at older models that don't have it. But even so I don't believe it's an issue in WinSPMBT as the turns are long enough a few seconds one way or the other doesn't matter.
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  #40  
Old November 25th, 2018, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Merkava invincible?

"Invincible"

No, they are not, neither in real life or in WinSPMBT. They are damned tough beasts though. Yes - if you are trying to kill a Merkava 4 with soviet 1970s or 1980s tech you will have issues. Let me generally comment on capabilities as much as I can while maintaining OPSEC:

1) Protection: A Merkava 4 is incredibly solid at the front. We are talking about stopping Kornets. Like all tanks the sides and rear are significantly less well armored. How much so? I do not know exactly and if I did I would not divulge online to strangers. As for the rear door being a weakpoint, I would not bet on it being any worse than most rear armor on tanks. That clamshell is very think indeed. RPG-7 older models proof more or less...
The active protection system is double and triple combat proven and works very well and if it knocks your ATGMs out of the sky in game, well that's what it does IRL...

2) Sensors - as mentioned the MK.4 took sensors to a new level and future variants will be better. Night time and smoke, other than specific types, are completely irrelevant, we are talking about practically night as day.

Vague but relevant: to a degree the sensory capabilities are under represented in game, and IRL you would see Merkava 3 and 4 units being even faster in hunter-killer mode...I really am sorry for being vague about this but it is simply top secret stuff. Just know that the game actually gives you a bit of a discount on how well Merkava can deal with ATGMs and other major threats.

Now despite all of this Merkavas were and will be knocked out both IRL and in game.

I would propose always preventing your high cost hi tech ATGMs from firing on their own. Hide them and use them only on the flanks of the Merkava. Even better - on the rear. If you let a company of tanks, any tanks, catch a whiff of you as an ATGM based force before you can spring a trap from the flanks - you will suffer IRL and in game.

Let me paint a picture of what happens with OPSEC in mind:

A company of tanks is traveling when they are unwisely engaged by ATGMs from the front at max ranges (let's say 3000m). At this point the APS will protect the front tank. More over it is extremely likely that the front tank will ID the general location or even specific location of the ATGM. The info will be shared nearly instantly via the combat management system. The company will pop smoke and find a position line it can "work" from. Now 11 120mm tanks firing APAM are going to be employed against an ATGM which is a soft target. IRL this includes top attack capability...This is a very bad situation for the ATGMs. They will be suppressed and destroyed eventually. And this is ignoring the tank company will usually have mortar/UAV/helicopter/NLOS support.


HOWEVER:

If Mr. ATGM waits for these 11 tanks to show their sides, and Mr. ATGM and his friends fire at once and use maybe some artillery to supress the tank commanders, the first volley can maybe destroy one or two tanks. At the least it sends the unit into chaos as artillery forces them to button up. The ATGMs should now run the heck away and re position. Their initial positions should be such that allow this to be done out of LOS of their ambushed target. They can re-position and repeat. Even if the tanks are not all killed, doing this will delay their advance because they will look for positions, spread out, than fail to find what to shoot at, so they will again form a formation more friendly to moving forward, and repeat...

Naturally, there are no assurances when the tanks happen to be Merkava 4 with good teams(Or any world class MBT with good teams).
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