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  #1  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 08:53 PM
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Default Hebrew derived position suggestions

There have been suggestions floating around about doing a Hebrew-themed nation. Here are my suggestions - if the developers aren't going to do it, I'll shoulder part of the work if someone else is working on it (as soon as I actually have the game.)

Is wikipedia accurate? Maybe, probably not. But if it's cool, we don't care, since we're not trying to be accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...d_the_Crusades

Early Era
This is pre-Abrahmic Canaan. It should be pointed out that archeological evidence for a Hebrew displacement of pre-Hebrew Canaanites is non-existent.
You have standard primitive infantry but no cavalry.
Your charioteers are all Nephilim or Anakim, who are giants - they're sacred, a size level up from people, and have awe. Nephilim princes are priests who have nature, blood and fire. Since you're from the same part of the world (very roughly) as pythium, perhaps your chariots should be pulled by lizards instead of horses.
You can also recruit Witches - who are brides to the Nephilim. They're cheap and have random sorcery.
You get a better deal on summoning fallen angels (nation specific blood spells), and your fallen angels are sacred with a better mix of magic.

Middle Era (Early Era?)
One option is to swap the Hebrews out for Arabs or Persians in the Middle Era - but I haven't seen a final list of nations. If we do that, we make these guys early era.
Assuming we want more Jews, we'll go first (Judges, Kings) and second (Persian Empire) temple period rather than actually drawing on dark ages (Byzantine period) - since Pythium is already in game. We could use these guys for early period, if we want early period Jews who are more recognizably Jewish - but these guys are roughly contemparaneous with the Roman empire, a period we're kinda skipping, and they had oodles of steel.
Again, you have standard period infantry and cavalry. You may have serpent cataphracts (instead of horses) since you're near pythium geographically. You have three sacred units - Slingers (after David, natch), Destroyers, who are infantry (after Gideon) that are very skilled but otherwise unexceptional, and Hammers (after Judas Maccabeus,) who are very stealthy, light (lizard?) cavalry, who don't use supplies during sieges.
The judges have overthrown the nephilim - judges are big priests, with astral, fire and nature, and they reduce unrest just by existing. Judge-prophets are extra-groovy. Hammer generals are just priests, but they're stealthy light cavalry commanders.
Your capital has the "Temple Mount", of course.

Late Era
These are modeled on the states present in Canaan during the first crusade - they were vassals of various Arab neighbors but I digress. While they're at it, they get the Kabalists that were actually in Europe during this period.
You finally get Kabalists. This should be a relatively strong magic position. Kabalists all have astral, and they have random elemental. They're not terribly large, but they make automatic communions, which is about the only way to get milage out of magic in late period anyway. Kabalists are sacred but they are NOT priests.
Rabbis are just priests.
Other than that, you get kinda lousy infantry, and you get Hammers again, but this time they have better weaponry and aren't stealthy. Your crossbowmen are better than average.
Your capital has the "Dome of the Rock". It makes Hammers and up-sized kabalists.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 04:49 AM
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Default Re: Hebrew derived position suggestions

Hmmm, interesting, very interesting. I also had such a project going with the help of some other people.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...b=5&o=&fpart=1

Check it out. I had the idea that early age would be age of powerful priest-mage prophets, middle era would be byblical Israel during the reign of Solomon and magic has started to shift away from religion. I also had idea of late era being the era of Kabalists and Rabbis where priestly skills and magic have split for good.

They would be able to summon regular angels, Kruvim and some powerful unique angels. I'm not sure if we can mod national summons though...

All the stuff in the thread would be for Early era.

However then I learned Illwinter has a plan to make a hebrew dreived nation for Dom 3 in some patch so I was kind of demoralized by it.

But if I get someone to help with graphics I'll restart the project.

I even have though up of full names for Sar Elad in all eras...
Sar Elad - Era of Miracles
Sar Elad - The Wise Kingdom
Sar Elad - Cabals and Trade

Oh, and I think that Nephilim would make a fine adversary for early "Sar Elad" as we decided to call it. However your suggestion appears to be quite similiar to Sauromatia which has dark sorceries and lizards.
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 05:23 AM
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Default Re: Hebrew derived position suggestions

Well, I really like how we made Sar Elad, and would therefore like to see it regardless of an Illwinter-made nation on the same theme.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty much useless as far as drawing goes :\
If you saw my Umbarthium mod, you should have a rough estimate of my capabilities
EDIT: Attached a .rar archive of my mod, just in case you missed the horror and would like to see it (At least most graphics are quite horrible)
Attached Files
File Type: rar 451481-UmbarthiumMod.rar (30.9 KB, 95 views)
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 05:26 AM
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Default Re: Hebrew derived position suggestions

Well then, coding it together propably isn't hard. =) It's graphics. =(

Hmm, Sar Elad might need some up-powering for early era though. Like Awe (0) for some sacred unit, Chariots (more of a Solomon thing though, since I remember the old testament saying that Solomon had a lot of them. Not sure though. ) or a pick or two more for the mages.

Not sure, maybe. I'll have to see how things play in game. =)
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: Hebrew derived position suggestions

Quote:
Early Era
This is pre-Abrahmic Canaan. It should be pointed out that archeological evidence for a Hebrew displacement of pre-Hebrew Canaanites is non-existent.
You have standard primitive infantry but no cavalry.
Your charioteers are all Nephilim or Anakim, who are giants - they're sacred, a size level up from people, and have awe. Nephilim princes are priests who have nature, blood and fire. Since you're from the same part of the world (very roughly) as pythium, perhaps your chariots should be pulled by lizards instead of horses.
You can also recruit Witches - who are brides to the Nephilim. They're cheap and have random sorcery.
You get a better deal on summoning fallen angels (nation specific blood spells), and your fallen angels are sacred with a better mix of magic.
Standard primitive infantry - what equipment? We could use indy LI graphics if they use spears, or swords. They have some kind of metal armor, right?
C'tis has Lizard Chariots pulled by those things Jade Amazons have, Sauromatia is near Ermor and C'tis and is actually ON the Swamps of Pythia, and Sauromatia has both Lizards Pythium will use Jade Amazons riding their lizard mounts. What equipment would these have? How good would they be?
You wrote "Nephilim or Anakim" - are there two names or two types of giants?
What equipment would Nephilim Princes have? The same with Witches.

What randoms, exactly, do you want them to have?
Witches can have Sorcery random. Or FNB random. Or FSNB or FDNB or FSDNB random. Or multiple randoms with different chances. One example:

100%NB
100%SDNB
50%SDNB

Always one sorcery, always either Nature or Blood in addition to that, often one more sorcery pick. Witches should be able to hunt Blood Slaves if you want Nephilim Princes to be able to use Blood. They can also be made to be able to Blood Sacrifice (like Abysia or Vanheim).

You can mod up to 5 normal heroes, and up to 2 types of heroes that keep coming and coming.

You can define starting site, name it, define path and level, make certain that it ISN'T used as a random site (but also make it available as one), choose gem production (6 for typical EA nation), and choose capital-only units and/or commanders.

Post more info here, and I can check if I can find fitting sprites. If I do, #copyspr copies that to a new unit.

There are no empty summoning slots, but as an Early Age nation this could "borrow" some Late Age spells. Ashen Empire has lots of them, for instance. What kind of names are you after? It isn't yet possible to change names or descriptions of spells. Also, it seems that it isn't yet possible to set national spells as researchable, only as "available from the start" like in DomII.
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 06:25 AM

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Default Re: Hebrew derived position suggestions

Quote:
Endoperez said:
Also, it seems that it isn't yet possible to set national spells as researchable, only as "available from the start" like in DomII.
Um, I thought that we can set national summons for various paths and levels. So basically all national summons will be available from start? Example if we want to add low level summons for the Lizardmen race like draconian troops, and high level summons like dragons, all of them will be available from start?

*Edit*
Nevermind, I've seen your reply in the modders wishlist. Hopefully this will be possible also when the game will be patched.
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 07:12 AM
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Default Re: Hebrew derived position suggestions

Quote:
DominionsFan said:
Quote:
Endoperez said:
Also, it seems that it isn't yet possible to set national spells as researchable, only as "available from the start" like in DomII.
Um, I thought that we can set national summons for various paths and levels. So basically all national summons will be available from start? Example if we want to add low level summons for the Lizardmen race like draconian troops, and high level summons like dragons, all of them will be available from start?
There aren't that many new modding commands. The old way of setting a spell as a national one makes uses #research to set the spell as a national spell and #school to choose the nation. I didn't notice any new commands. There are researchable national spells, so it is now possible for such a command to exist, or be added if it doesn't yet exist.
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: Hebrew derived position suggestions

Regarding Nephilim VS. Anakim you can just search wikipedia for Nephilim
I could share what I learned about them in school, but frankly, its not very interesting and doesn't contribute much to how Anakim/Nephilim could be put into a mod.
However, I can express my opinion that I'd rather not see Nephilim or Anakim in Sar Elad, I don't really think they fit well, especially since as an Early Era nation, they shouldn't really have very strong units but rather focus more on commanders. An furthermore, just by reading the entry on wikipedia we can see that both anakim and nephilim would not be welcome in Sar Elad (I have further reasons, but again they are really boring)

EDIT: Link fixed, thanks Endoperez.
It was just that I forgot to add HTTP://, so it automatically adds the shrapnel thingey at the begining.
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Hebrew derived position suggestions

Agrajag, that link doesn't work. Edit the link in the [ url ] tag to remove the www.shrapnelcommunity.com etc from it. Now it tried to link to a post number "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim" in he forums. It doesn't work.
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Hebrew derived position suggestions

Nephilim are interesting (from Wikipedia article I found Og, who is a perfect hero, and lots of interesting things in all), but it doesn't tell of the types of units that should be available. I'll check the other mod and look through units fitting that; I think these two could be connected rival nations and share many of the common units, like Pythium and Ermor.
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