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  #21  
Old December 30th, 2008, 05:09 PM

MaxWilson MaxWilson is offline
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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDaemon View Post
Great guide Baalz! I would like you and/or the community to comment on the strategy of self-buffed combat sorcerers w/ little or none crafted items and then charging in to become spiders. I remember using them like that in Dom2, but not for years now... Have you had too many losses for this strategy or do you not find them as effective as researching and then using them as mages?
Quoting from upthread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baalz
@Thejeff - I find the black sorcerer thugs a bit of a fun gimmick rather than a very effective thug. You don't want to equip anything other than misc items if you plan on switching to a spider (you'll lose them), which doesn't leave much that's terribly effective. I'm certainly open to someone proving me wrong, but I haven't been able to make this effective yet.
-Max
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  #22  
Old January 1st, 2009, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

Fun strategy

I've some questions about kitting out the banes. (By the way, you've written bane lord instead of bane everywhere)
What's your opinion on adding a lychantrope amulet and maybe a fire plate? The fire plate might seem a little redundant with the bane's heavy starting armour but if you have a lot of fire gems the better def, ap and 100% fire resistance might make a difference.

I think it depends on your luck in finding death and earth gems. If you can afford to field several banes with firebrand and awe shield I guess that would be most effective but if you have trouble affording them it might be worth it to kit them out some more.
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  #23  
Old January 1st, 2009, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

Baalz. How do you manage to come with all those interesting and surprising strategies?- I usually read your guides and think how come I wasn't aware of this before.

I esp. like your guides for weak nations. I'm looking forward to day you'll make a Yomi guide.
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  #24  
Old January 1st, 2009, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

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Originally Posted by Kadelake View Post
Fun strategy

I've some questions about kitting out the banes. (By the way, you've written bane lord instead of bane everywhere)
What's your opinion on adding a lychantrope amulet and maybe a fire plate? The fire plate might seem a little redundant with the bane's heavy starting armour but if you have a lot of fire gems the better def, ap and 100% fire resistance might make a difference.

I think it depends on your luck in finding death and earth gems. If you can afford to field several banes with firebrand and awe shield I guess that would be most effective but if you have trouble affording them it might be worth it to kit them out some more.
Yes, the lycanthrope amulet is an excellent choice, and there are worse ideas than using fire gems for fire plate, though the primary thing you're gonna be struggling with generally at this point is scraping up enough gems to outfit a steady stream of banes. Keep in mind that these are 4 gem summons so while the gems obviously don't always translate directly across I tend to think skipping the amulet and fire plate is almost another bane with an awe shield and weapon. These are the frontline troops of your army, you want mass over efficiency. You'll probably be dissapointed if you're trying to shoehorn these guys into real thug roles, but if you can really convince yourself that they are your uber-heavy infantry then you'll have a big grin on your face every time you bring them to a fight.

The thing is, you're also going to want to be diversifying so that you're not completely screwed when your opponent starts spamming dust to dust (or other strong anti-undead spells). I'd almost always recommend nature and fire gems get funneled into dragon master and fire drakes, or vine ogres, or fire boosters for combat mages, or something else clever rather than making your banes more efficient.
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  #25  
Old January 2nd, 2009, 01:32 AM

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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

Even better than Machaka on fever fetishes is EA Arco.

Keep on province where you kill your own dominion. (Skeptics).
When unit x gets down to 3 hp or so.. switch amulet to another scout. Heal. Repeat.
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  #26  
Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:25 AM

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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

Why does dominion matter for fever fetishing? Arco's dominion does automatic scrying, but it doesn't heal, as far as I know.

-Max
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  #27  
Old January 2nd, 2009, 06:43 AM

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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

Yeah I was wondering that too. What does dominion have to do with it? How are arco better than machaka at it if they're just using scouts?
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  #28  
Old January 2nd, 2009, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

Arco has priestess healers, so they don't have to keep hiring new fetish holders.

It's got nothing at all to do with dominion though, and Arco does not have FN mages anyway, so it's all kind of moot unless you're doing some weird nature-forge-lord thing.

I tried out a FWEN Forge Lord once and it's actually a doable strategy, pumping out cheap fetishes and clams. 2F2N for a fetish, 7W2N for a clam. Not a whole lot of fun though.
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  #29  
Old January 2nd, 2009, 12:58 PM

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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

I don't think fever fetishing is moot, it's just not something you can plan on in every game. From now on every time I find e.g. a Forest of a Thousand Streams, my first thought will still be "Oooh! I can clam now," but the second thought will be "And fever fetish!" Note that fever fetishing and then alchemizing the fire gems to pearls is slightly more nature-gem-intensive than clamming (4:1 instead of 3:1), but you're also not water-limited.

-Max
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  #30  
Old January 2nd, 2009, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

To be honest, there are two critical factors that makes Machaka the fever fetish king for me.

1) You can start cranking them out reliably early in year one. The amount of gems you get is cumulative, so making a dozen fetishes in year one lands you hundreds of extra gems, and they're flowing in during the early part of the game when gem incomes are much lower and thus gems are more valuable. Starting just 6 turns earlier really makes a significant difference.

2) To be honest, for me the real draw of the spider lords is the lack of micro. My number one goal of playing is not to win, it's to have fun. I won't play a strategy that's not fun even if (or especially because actually) it's guaranteed to win. I don't really care if units have recuperation or I can heal them - at the point I've get to look forward to shuffling dozens of fetishes around every turn I'm dreading my turn rather than looking forward to it, and the number of fetishes you're shuffling adds up real fast on 10 hp units if you're cranking out 3 fetishes per turn - basically every 8 or 9 turns you've got another 3 fetishes to juggle every turn. With spider lords - just stop juggling as soon as it gets to be a pain, the strategy is more than justified with no juggling at all.
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