winMBT low percentile hits - Page 3

loktarr · #21 July 16th, 2005, 06:33 AM

Maybe your Israelis were not hitten by the only AK-47, there are also support weapons in a squad...
And are PKM and other light machinguns firing at 300m only?
Poor Egyptians, if they don't have any support weapon in their squads...

nosrac · #22 July 17th, 2005, 01:11 AM

are you guys saying it is normal for ANY infantry squad(not just poor egypitans..blah..blah..) to score kills on tacticly moving infantry(small arms, 50m hex,9-10 men) at 300-400 meters???
machine gun,ak,m16,rpg.. whatever the hell weapon they choose. is that right?if that is the case fine with me. that is very impressive. effective range means what? supression,kills?so if im in a squad, creeping(cover) down a road some unsupressed 65 exp. squad can drop two men at 300-400m with a pk b/c i can't see him???????!!!!!!!i did not realize how accurate modern weapons were. i am not in the military and don't have battlefield exp so this is a definate learning cruve for me. thanks.
chuck

loktarr · #23 July 17th, 2005, 06:20 AM

That's not a problem of modern weapon or not, BTW during WW2, german MG-42 could fire at an aim at 800m (reported from a guy that was on eastern front)...

Exel · #24 July 17th, 2005, 12:05 PM

Given a situation where an infantry squad fires at another infantry squad 400 meters away with everything they've got (assault rifles as well as MGs), then I see nothing spectacular in them getting one or two kills. You certainly can't snipe with an AK to 400 meters, but if you get enough bullets in the area, some of them are bound to hit your target.

DRG · #25 July 17th, 2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Exel said:
Given a situation where an infantry squad fires at another infantry squad 400 meters away with everything they've got (assault rifles as well as MGs), then I see nothing spectacular in them getting one or two kills. You certainly can't snipe with an AK to 400 meters, but if you get enough bullets in the area, some of them are bound to hit your target.

Exactly. As well this is NOT something that happens all the time in the game OR in reality and those 2 "kills" are not "kills" they are casualties and "Casualties" means a man is removed from the fighting and that can cover anything from and outright kill to a case of "battle fatigue"

One "problem" we have always had is the number generator sometimes, in certain conditions, generates too many high or low end results in a row just as if you were playing an old board game with dice and seem to be cursed or charmed by rolling snake eyes or box cars more than is "normal" it's one of the quirks of the game and it's also one of the things that allows the game to simulate the fact that in combat, you can do everything right and by the book but if the other guys gets lucky all the training in the world won't help you and sometimes even Egyptian conscripts can score effectively against high trained Israeli Paras. S**t Happens

Don

nosrac · #26 July 17th, 2005, 01:27 PM

thanks to all for helpful comments. i guess i also need to remember that each turn(pulse) is 3-5 min. a lot of lead can fly in that time frame. just curious. i've read that the ai performs best with a batillion size force when attacking. is that correct? thanks again.

Weasel · #27 July 18th, 2005, 08:11 PM

Effective range for the C7 (M16 if you are American) is maximum 300 meters with the scope. Optimal range is 200 meters. Effective fire is "FIRE THAT WILL CAUSE CASUALTIES IF APPROPRIATE ACTION IS NOT TAKEN".

Since the AK is a looser built weapon and thus not as accurate, I would say it's maximum effective range is 200 meters, optimal 100 meters.

Weasel · #28 July 18th, 2005, 08:14 PM

here is another example: My T72 fires at another T72, my shot % is 69% and I miss. He returns fire (having to traverse etc) and gets a 16% chance to hit...AND KILLS ME.

All I can do is let out a big sigh. So can this be fixed or what?

PlasmaKrab · #29 July 19th, 2005, 04:02 AM

Red light syndrom, anyone?

You have to understand that all these percentile figures are, is a probability. If you have 76% PK, you still have one chance in 4 to miss it. If the other guy has 16% PK, he still has one chance in 7 to hit. And that's it.
Additionally the result of a first "dice roll" has no influence on the following, apart from the weapons on one unit going more accurate with every shot on the same target. Not because you have been unlucky once will the game hand you better dice out!
The game probability engine can be unfair, well, too bad, nature can as well!
By the way, I for one consider myself quite lucky with this probability engine. I am no rabid hex gamer, and maybe I have to remind some that many of the modern "wider-public" computer strategy games don't have one...

There is nothing to be fixed in this case, except maybe for the very human habit of always seeing the odds against oneself and not accepting the effects of random influences as, well, random... You see, destiny against you and so on...

As Don said above, the game's dice roller sometimes tends to stick in rows, so you can be VERY lucky or unlucky for some amount of time going. Well, as they say, [censored] happens!

Now if your 99% PK missiles keep overshooting again and again, that is where you have a problem.

loktarr · #30 July 19th, 2005, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Since the AK is a looser built weapon and thus not as accurate, I would say it's maximum effective range is 200 meters, optimal 100 meters.

MG-42 was also a looser built weapon and I never heard allied veterans saying it was not accurate...
In fact from some experiments (serious ones, I mean), the AK-47 is more accurate at great ranges because of the weight of the bullet (7,62mm), but it's not the same for the AK-74, as it is a 5,45mm bullet...