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Old August 14th, 2019, 07:07 AM

PantherCub PantherCub is offline
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Default Tanks firing machine guns at other tanks

In game tanks will routinely fire the machine guns at other tanks after firing the main gun if they can. AFAIK this inflicts minor suppression, but otherwise is just tedious and takes time when playing.

I served as a tanker and we were never taught to fire the coaxial machine gun at other tanks in a tank vs tank duel. The MG has different ballistics and uses a different setting on the sight, so switching to the MG to fire a burst after each main gun round would be a diversion from the vital life or death task of observing the fall of shot and getting the next main gun round on target. You would also risk using up the current ammo belt for the MG on a target where it is of little use and then being in an awkward situation if enemy infantry pops up suddenly. Because the loader will be fully occupied in reloading the main gun and will have no time to change belts or the barrel of the MG.

The hull machine gun might be a different matter, I wouldn't know from experience as modern tanks lack these, but I think the same would apply there.

Against infantry it's another thing, as hosing down the general area to make them keep their heads down and not use inf AT weapons will often be desirable, especially at short range.
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Old August 14th, 2019, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: Tanks firing machine guns at other tanks

The game has always fired MGs if it is an available weapon. If you don't want to fire them with your own vehicle, then switch the things off first.

I have reduced the times that a tank with only MG shots available will fire in opfire - but that still happens from time to time.

MG fire can contribute to buttoning up the enemy AFV, so is not completely useless. It is also useful for suppressing enemy infantry that happen to be nearby or in the same hex, if the fire falls in it.
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Old August 17th, 2019, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Tanks firing machine guns at other tanks

And sheds those pesky riders.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 03:35 PM

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Default Re: Tanks firing machine guns at other tanks

It's also useful to assist with the primitive range finders and fire control systems to improve the hit percentage. I will fire the first shot or two with just the machine gun (to save main gun ammo), and when I do finally use the main gun, I can often get a hit the first time I use it. I once did some testing with firing the main gun and machine guns, and just firing the main gun, to see if the machine guns firing helped with getting a better hit percentage as opposed to just using the main gun, but I was never really sure if they helped or not.

Steve
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Old August 20th, 2019, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Tanks firing machine guns at other tanks

That technique probably will work, and could save you some main gun ammo. Not such a good idea for firing at targets that might reply with a full sized round, though..

You could of course test that theory with a simple range-test scratch scenario, with unarmed AFV of some sort as the targets. Fire some rounds the traditional way, and some with the "ranging MGs" method.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Tanks firing machine guns at other tanks

In reality, not sure about the game, it's sometimes a morale thing. It feels better to shoot back at someone who is shooting at you rather than sit there and take it. That's why soldiers shoot rifles at helicopters. Though there are often good reasons Not to shoot back.

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Old August 21st, 2019, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Tanks firing machine guns at other tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steves308 View Post
It's also useful to assist with the primitive range finders and fire control systems to improve the hit percentage. I will fire the first shot or two with just the machine gun (to save main gun ammo), and when I do finally use the main gun, I can often get a hit the first time I use it. I once did some testing with firing the main gun and machine guns, and just firing the main gun, to see if the machine guns firing helped with getting a better hit percentage as opposed to just using the main gun, but I was never really sure if they helped or not.

Steve
I do this often with vehicles that have low ammo load outs so mainly WINSPMBT Russian made tanks like T-55 works fine.
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Old August 21st, 2019, 06:37 AM

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Default Re: Tanks firing machine guns at other tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steves308 View Post
It's also useful to assist with the primitive range finders and fire control systems to improve the hit percentage. I will fire the first shot or two with just the machine gun (to save main gun ammo), and when I do finally use the main gun, I can often get a hit the first time I use it. I once did some testing with firing the main gun and machine guns, and just firing the main gun, to see if the machine guns firing helped with getting a better hit percentage as opposed to just using the main gun, but I was never really sure if they helped or not.

Steve
I cannot tell from your comment if this refers to reality or the game?

There are/have been some guns that used dedicated coaxial rifle calibre weapons for ranging, but that presupposes that the ranging gun has more or less the same ballistics as the main gun. And for tank guns firing high velocity AT rounds this is not the case. So any ranging shots with a regular MG will just be wasted and possibly alert the enemy.

Besides, what I was referring to was the routine in game firing of MGs by tanks on tanks AFTER the main gun has been fired.
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Old August 27th, 2019, 06:03 PM

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Default Re: Tanks firing machine guns at other tanks

I was referring to the game.

An interesting test is to take a tank with a hull gun, like the M3 Grant, and then fire at a target with all the weapons, and then have a 2nd M3 Grant fire with just the hull gun (usually in the last weapons slot). In the case of the Grant, having first the 37mm, then the coax machinegun, fire seems to help the hull mounted 75mm gain a higher percentage than by just firing the 75mm gun (this testing was based on just the initial round of firing, not multiple rounds).

I don't have any mathematical proof, it just seemed the hit percentages were higher with firing multiple weapons than just a single weapon. So maybe firing the multiple machine guns in addition to the main gun would help increase accuracy for the following rounds?

I guess for a real test I need to create some test vehicle with 4 of the same weapon, then note if the 4th weapon has a higher hit percentage than the 1st weapon...though I think the fire control and range finder may only apply to the primary weapon, and maybe the coax/2nd slot weapon.

Steve
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