Warning: Illegal string offset 'type' in [path]/includes/class_postbit.php(294) : eval()'d code on line 65
Fixing up Tartarians ? - Page 2 - .com.unity Forums
.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

BCT Commander- Save $6.00
World Supremacy- Save $8.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 3: The Awakening

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old April 12th, 2010, 12:40 PM

Belac Belac is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 282
Thanks: 8
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Belac is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombre View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAJ View Post
Couldn't tarts be balanced by just making them more expensive? Or would that just increase the gap between huge death income nations vs medium/low death income races? Maybe give them a small chance per turn to be called back to tartarus? Make them even less reliable?
You would think right? Or just making them less powerful. But no, people always go for the sideways attempts to balance them. Make them mad, make GoR more expensive, make the equipment they use more expensive, make death boosters more expensive.

I think people inherently enjoy tarts being stupidly cost effective. Even as troops they're a bargain.
Because Tarts are the way to ultimate magic diversity, having the chance to have lots of tarts is cool. It makes the endgame include the puzzle of "I have x random magic paths, what can I do with this?" Also, there are already rare, powerful SCs--the existence of common SCs with other drawbacks is a fairly cool thing.

Perhaps there could be more types of Tart to rebalance them and make them more closely resemble what a cast of defeated gods would be. Take most of the magic paths away from the Titan and Titaness, and have the tart chassis that gets 3-2-2 randoms be a Great Sage. Ultimate magic diversity, totally not a SC.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old April 12th, 2010, 12:47 PM
Burnsaber's Avatar

Burnsaber Burnsaber is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,617
Thanks: 179
Thanked 304 Times in 123 Posts
Burnsaber is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

Or you guys could try out Llamabeast's Endgame Diversity Mod which was made to fix this exact issue (tarts being the only SC option)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old April 12th, 2010, 03:03 PM

Festin Festin is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 162
Thanks: 13
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Festin is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

Or we could reduce the cost of generally overpriced national endgame summons to make them worth using and add some diversity to the endgame.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old April 12th, 2010, 03:31 PM
Squirrelloid Squirrelloid is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,157
Thanks: 69
Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
Squirrelloid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

I totally support 30d tarts and 5n GoR! GoR for everything!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old April 12th, 2010, 04:09 PM
Foodstamp's Avatar
Foodstamp Foodstamp is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 2,059
Thanks: 229
Thanked 106 Times in 71 Posts
Foodstamp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

I think the reason they made tarts so cheap is for rapid end game cleanup. This is great for SP if you want the option, but it is predictable and annoying in almost all end game situations in multiplayer.
__________________
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH NEXT TURN.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old April 12th, 2010, 04:18 PM

Belac Belac is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 282
Thanks: 8
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Belac is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelloid View Post
I totally support 30d tarts and 5n GoR! GoR for everything!
Actually, that is a really good idea (the 5N GoR especially). There's lots of stuff that would make interesting commanders (OK, I'm reviewing my turn in Mooseknight right now and wishing I had the nature gems to spend GoRing an Umbral), but 20 (or even 15) Nature gems is quite a fair amount.

I think there's substantial value in a cheap SC with severe and unavoidable drawbacks. There are other things we can do with Tarts that would weaken them relatively. For example:

GoR doesn't work on them. You don't get one of the 1/5 who are already commanders, summon another. That would weaken Tarts overall without changing the relative power of nations with more Death gems.
Instead of Shattered Soul (which still makes them useful on defense), they sometimes get Lost in Time and Space.
Tarts Leave After A While, as the magical bonds holding them on this plane weaken and they plunge back into Tartarus.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old April 12th, 2010, 04:19 PM

thejeff thejeff is offline
General
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,327
Thanks: 4
Thanked 133 Times in 117 Posts
thejeff is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

Cheap Tarts are actually balanced better. That lets those who don't have the Chalice and/or GoH summon enough to get useful ones.
If they were sufficiently expensive then they'd only be worthwhile if you could cure all you got and whoever could hold onto the Chalice/GoH would dominate.

If you could change mechanics to balance them better, I'd make them uncurable, even by the Chalice/GoH.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old April 12th, 2010, 04:40 PM

Doo Doo is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 356
Thanks: 36
Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts
Doo is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsaber View Post
Or you guys could try out Llamabeast's Endgame Diversity Mod which was made to fix this exact issue (tarts being the only SC option)
I agree this is a good mod, and it adds flavor to the game.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old April 12th, 2010, 06:25 PM

Sombre Sombre is offline
BANNED USER
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,463
Thanks: 165
Thanked 324 Times in 190 Posts
Sombre is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

I think more expensive and incurable is the way I'd go.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old April 12th, 2010, 08:13 PM

Micah Micah is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,226
Thanks: 12
Thanked 86 Times in 48 Posts
Micah is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Fixing up Tartarians ?

More expensive and incurable just raises the luck factor of what chassis types you end up with and what afflictions they come with. Tarts are a needed end game balance mechanism to unlock magic paths for certain nations and shouldn't be constrained too tightly. Adding in other summons is a much better idea IMO, as it increases strategic chassis selections as opposed to increasing the importance of luck. There are also a reasonable amount of counters available to tarts IMO.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2020, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.