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  #11  
Old April 9th, 2009, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

The lure in front of his eyes doesn't make him as scary, kinda funny... I'd change it to some type of horn or spear_like piece or remove it completely.
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  #12  
Old April 9th, 2009, 03:12 PM

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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

I personally still don't get the fire prot at all, also he still has much better magic than I think is appropriate especially considering his powerfull physique
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  #13  
Old April 9th, 2009, 03:37 PM

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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

The lure is just what I would expect from an ultra-deep Dagan (how else does he see his prey???).

Fire Res makes as much sense as Cold Res in the deep ocean (down next to the vents and the undersea volcanoes).

More fun and (to my mind) thematically appropriate would be to remove the paths, make him aquatic, make him blind, and let him autocast darkness (he's an angler fish!!!). That would be a radical change that I might just have to make for my version, though.

Oh, and the sprite is beautiful.
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  #14  
Old April 9th, 2009, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

Just as the Dagon is an Atlantian, the Deep Dagon is a Deep One, and Deep Ones have both fire and cold resistance, are amphibious, and they have lures. Regarding the magic skill, I personally don't feel it's that unbalancing considering his slowness and lack of combat skill and precision, not to mention his hefty point cost. Besides, living pillars need the earth and water bless, and earth and water are the magics of choice for Basalt Kings and Mages of the Deep.
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  #15  
Old April 9th, 2009, 03:59 PM

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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaywardG View Post
Thanks for all the input, everyone. I've cleaned up the sprites, added the other arm, and updated the stats:

Cost 125
Size 6
Hit Points 200
Strength 32
Protection 16 + 2
Attack Skill 8
Defense Skill 8 - 2
Precision 8
Morale 30
Magic Resistance 18
Encumbrance 4
Move 1/6
Age 3000+(5000)
Leadership 80/0/20

Water 2, Earth 2
Amphibious, Fear +2, FireRes 50, ColdRes 50, PoisonRes 100, Darkvision 100

2 hands, head, body, feet, 2 misc

Dominion: 2
New Path Cost: 50
Weapons: swallow, claw

The swallow attack is the same as that used by the monster fish Atlantis unique summon. It is a strength +0 (x2 vs. smaller) damage, area 1, defense -2, bonus attack (as opposed to the claw, which is replaced by any equipped weapons). It seemed thematically appropriate, given that he is basically the monster fish with limbs, but I hadn't really considered the balance implications of dealing automatic hitting 70 damage to everything smaller than him in an entire square. I've toned back his strength, hp, protection, resistances, and dominion, and removed trample, so hopefully he's closer to faithfully representing his cost. I'm still open to suggestions, though.
Well, first, I like many aspects. The swallow attack is cool and thematic.

There are very few Pretenders that combine 2/2 with High HP and high hitpoints. He has higher hp than the manticore, the worm, the dragons.

There is nothing wrong with higher hitpoints per se - but he also has better paths:

For SP play I think he's great .. but for MP play I think he is WAY strong. Lots of ways to balance him, but how about:

Option A: He's too big to use impliments. Remove all slots but miscellaneous.

Cost 125
Size 6
Hit Points 260
Strength 32
Protection 16
Attack Skill 12
Defense Skill 8 - 2
Precision 10
Morale 30
Magic Resistance 18
Encumbrance 4
Move 1/6
Age 3000+(5000)
Leadership 20/0/20

Water 2
Amphibious, Fear +2, ColdRes 100, PoisonRes 100, Darkvision 100

2 misc

Dominion: 2
New Path Cost: 50
Weapons: swallow, claw

I think this is *close* to balanced - but if he gets regen (nature path for example) and/or cast quickness on himself.. he could get interesting.

Oh: As these creatures are also very tricky, I would have him autocast twist fate.
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  #16  
Old April 10th, 2009, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

Don't lose the lure, the graphic looks great.
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  #17  
Old April 10th, 2009, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate View Post
The lure is just what I would expect from an ultra-deep Dagan (how else does he see his prey???).
First lures are not used for seeing prey, but to bring prey close within striking range. Only hungry mindless zombies would approach that huge beast for its lure.

Second it looks like a pack of scattered white feathers hanging from its head... and just totally UNKOOL . Seriously what type of god still needs to lure food... every god should have servants and sacrifices being offered. But I guess if we need a pretender with ambigious sexual preference... we'll have one.
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Last edited by NTJedi; April 10th, 2009 at 02:23 AM.. Reason: grammar
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  #18  
Old April 10th, 2009, 02:29 AM

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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

Needs to? Or likes to?

Seems to work for women. Could probably work for fish.
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  #19  
Old April 10th, 2009, 04:57 PM

Aezeal Aezeal is offline
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

Fire Res makes as much sense as Cold Res in the deep ocean (down next to the vents and the undersea volcanoes).

OK this isn't enough justification for me really. Deep sea is in general cold I'd say.

Just as the Dagon is an Atlantian, the Deep Dagon is a Deep One, and Deep Ones have both fire and cold resistance, are amphibious,

this is a justification and dom 3 thematic I guess.. I'd still say that they all shouldn't have that resistance though but ok.

The other idea's fate mentions would be nice to, and thematic but completely different.

You might not find the magic skills unbalancing but since after your post someone else agrees with me you might want to listen anyway. THe skills as such aren't the problem, the skill on that monster are a bit much though.

Chris idea's are nice though I personally would find a balance option with more (probably all) item slots to keep him viable late game. Chris idea about twist fate doesn't make any sense to me and I'd seriously never do that.

My proposition:
Cost 150
Size 6
Hit Points 200
Strength 32
Protection 16 + 2
Attack Skill 8
Defense Skill 8 - 2
Precision 8
Morale 30
Magic Resistance 18
Encumbrance 4
Move 1/6
Age 3000+(5000)
Leadership 80/0/20

Water 1, Earth 1
Amphibious, Fear +0, FireRes 50, ColdRes 50, PoisonRes 100, Darkvision 100

2 hands, head, body, feet, 2 misc

Dominion: 2
New Path Cost: 60
Weapons: swallow, claw


Or lower dominion to 1, new path cost to 80 and hen give him 5 regen (this is obviously a stronger option)
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Want a blend of fantasy and sci-fi? Try the total conversion Dominions 3000 mod with a new and fully modded solar system map.
Dragons wanted? Try the Dragons, Magic Incarnate nation.
New and different undead nation? Try Souls of Shiar. Including new powerfull holy magic.
In for a whole new sort of game? Then try my scenario map Gang Wars.
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  #20  
Old April 10th, 2009, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

Alright, I'll admit perhaps I was trying to do too much with a single pretender. I've further revised his stats, and replaced the monster fish lure with one that looks less like a feather duster.

Cost 125
Size 6
Hit Points 200
Strength 32
Protection 16 + 1
Attack Skill 8
Defense Skill 8 - 2
Precision 8
Morale 30
Magic Resistance 18
Encumbrance 4
Move 1/6
Age 3000+(5000)
Leadership 40/0/10

Water 1, Earth 1
Amphibious, Fear +1, FireRes 50, ColdRes 50, PoisonRes 100, Darkvision 100

2 hands, head, body, feet, 2 misc

Dominion: 1
New Path Cost: 50
Weapons: swallow, claw

Magic paths, dominion, leadership, and fear have been scaled back. Perhaps my next project will be to tweak with the Basalt King sprite and make the Basalt Emperor pretender, who is less physically and more magically powerful, though I may or may not get around to that with all the other stuff I want to get done on various projects, so if someone else wants to run with that idea, be my guest.
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