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  #31  
Old April 13th, 2009, 01:15 AM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

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Originally Posted by Redeyes View Post
Why would Cold Resistance make more sense than Fire Resistance for a sea creature?
Water doesn't go below freezing (and ice floats, so the coldest "water" goes on top).
Perhaps because fire doesn't exist under water? Difficult (not impossible of course - this is magic) to get resistant to something if it doesn't commonly occur.

Besides as a matter of physics in an ice/water mixture, both the water and the ice are at a temperature of 32 degrees.
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  #32  
Old April 15th, 2009, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

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Originally Posted by chrispedersen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeyes View Post
Water doesn't go below freezing (and ice floats, so the coldest "water" goes on top).
Besides as a matter of physics in an ice/water mixture, both the water and the ice are at a temperature of 32 degrees.
...and 32 degrees is not _below_ freezing point. By definition, water cannot have a temperature below its freezing point (although if you try extremely hard you can get it below zero centigrade/32 F. Brine freezes at noticeably below zero anyway).

It's worth noting that air is a rather good insulator, by the way. Cold water strips heat away from you much quicker than cold air, and hot water damages you faster than air at the same temperature. Since abyssal vents present both extremes of temperature to the life forms that inhabit them (and they're probably the best place to be at that depth if you're a large organism and like eating), a degree of both FR and CR seems pretty reasonable.
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  #33  
Old April 15th, 2009, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

actually completely pure water won't freeze at 0 Celsius, you can actually get it much colder than that. Until you introduce some sort (any sort) of impurity, at which point it will all freeze.
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  #34  
Old April 16th, 2009, 02:13 AM

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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

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Originally Posted by Gregstrom View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispedersen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeyes View Post
Water doesn't go below freezing (and ice floats, so the coldest "water" goes on top).
Besides as a matter of physics in an ice/water mixture, both the water and the ice are at a temperature of 32 degrees.
...and 32 degrees is not _below_ freezing point. By definition, water cannot have a temperature below its freezing point (although if you try extremely hard you can get it below zero centigrade/32 F. Brine freezes at noticeably below zero anyway).
~ ~ ~ ~
water often has a temperature below its freezing point - if you think that its freezing point is 32 degrees. The behavior of water varies markedly under pressure, and as I recall from highschool, I believe every 33 ft of water is 1 atm. Ergo, water 2 miles down.. is under rougly 312 atmospheres of pressure.
~ ~ ~ ~

CR would be required to dwell on the ocean bottoms. FR might be useful if the creature lived in or near vents. CR > FR


This is magic, arguing which is more reasonable is a bit moot. The author can do as he likes. But, if a creature wasn't completely immune to cold, he would still be *AT* the vent. Whats he doing here?
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  #35  
Old April 16th, 2009, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

Beautiful graphics. Don't lose the lure!

A couple of thoughts/opinions, though:

1. I have to say, I hate the name, just because it's so derivitive. IMO, this guy deserves a unique name.

Here's a whole list of Lovecraftian entities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Old_One#Table_of_Great_Old_Ones

Maybe "Cthylla?"

1. I'd add stealth (0), since that's a *major* tool of deep undersea life.

2. I think it should be female. Maybe this is Dagon's "mate"?

3. Possibly lower Poison Res to 50%, because deep sea creatures tend to be a bit more fragile to environmental stuff. Plus it'd help balance my other two suggestions.

4. I'd love it if the lure gave like Awe (0) or some other appropriate ability, but I don't know how it could be balanced out.

Anyway, great work! Actually got me to post, which is pretty damn impressive.
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  #36  
Old April 17th, 2009, 06:48 AM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger View Post
1. I have to say, I hate the name, just because it's so derivitive. IMO, this guy deserves a unique name.
Deep Dagon is good enough for Dominions, but if you change his name into something from the Cthulhu mythos, he should be "Father Dagon". Not a female, because that's Mother Hydra, and that's the new heroine of LA Atlantis, the Unsleeping Queen or something.

I don't think Lovecraft's other ancient beings look like fish-men.
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  #37  
Old April 18th, 2009, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

You're right, Endoperez, but the reason I suggested "Cthylla" is because, while it is a Lovecraftian creature (the "daughter of C'thulhu", and something Brian Lumley came up with--which unfortunately isn't always a great recommendation), which is nice, it's also reminiscent of 'Scylla', which we don't currently have in the game anywhere that I'm aware of.

Cthylla is also female, and apparently a sea-creature, so those parts fit.

Dagon, for that matter, is actually an ancient, real-world deity.

It's just an opinion, anyway, but I do feel that the current naming detracts from the overall originality of the concept (which otherwise is very high), and if I were to add such a being to a game I was playing, I'd personally feel compelled to edit the name.
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  #38  
Old April 19th, 2009, 08:53 AM

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Default Re: New pretender: Deep Dagon

I would point out that, while most the deep ocean is very cold, it is also mostly empty (for the same reason). Life in the deep sea is concentrated around the vents, so it would make sense a predator like Deep Dagon would want it.

On another note, I have thrown together my own take on Deep Dagon, incorporating some suggestions from HoneyBadger.

Changes include:
--No magic
--Pathcost increased to 60
--50 PR and Awe +0, but no fear
--Aquatic (not amphibious)
--Recuperation
--Autocasts Darkness (this is the only way to get darkness underwater)

The autocast Darkness synergizes rather well with the 50-100 DV that Atlantians have. I might reduce the base cost to 100 from 125, but otherwise I *think* he is balanced.

#modname "Deep Dagon"
#description "This mod adds the Deep Dagon pretender choice for early Atlantis."
#version 3
#icon "DeepDagon\deep_dagon_banner.tga"

--Spell slot used: ?

#newspell
#copyspell "Darkness"
#end

#selectspell "Darkness"
#researchlevel 12
#spec 8388608
#end

--Unit slot used: 2400

----------
Pretenders
----------

--Deep Dagon
#newmonster 2400
#name "Deep Dagon"
#spr1 "./DeepDagon/deep_dagon_1.tga"
#spr2 "./DeepDagon/deep_dagon_2.tga"
#descr "The Deep Dagon is an ancient Deep One grown to truly monstrous proportions. Like all Deep Ones, it has perfect darkvision and is highly resistant to environmental extremes. Deep Dagon has spent so long in the darkness that it now follows him wherever he goes. Though slow and plodding, the Deep Dagon is extremely powerful, has developed tough, armor like skin, and has gained skill in earth and water magic. The Deep Dagon has a great, cavernous maw, which it is not afraid to use in combat, often swallowing whole several smaller foes at a time."
#ap 6
#mapmove 1
#hp 200
#prot 16
#size 6
#str 32
#enc 4
#att 8
#def 8
#prec 8
#mr 18
#mor 30
#gcost 125
#rcost 0
#pathcost 60
#startdom 3
#weapon 461
#weapon 29
#restrictedgod 21
#aquatic
#coldres 50
#fireres 50
#poisonres 50
#blind
#stealthy 0
#awe 1
#startage 3000
#maxage 5000
#heal
#onebattlespell "Darkness"
#itemslots 15494
#nametype 117
#okleader
#end

Thanks again to WaywardG for the sprite, I hope you don't mind my posting an alternative interpretation.
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