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  #11  
Old August 21st, 2010, 07:50 PM

13lackGu4rd 13lackGu4rd is offline
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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

H/C1 isn't like 2, it's part 5% income loss, part 0% income loss and part 10% income loss. a 5% income hit isn't so bad, especially is taking at least Growth1(Sorcerers have old age issues) instead of Death, and a few turns a year of 10% income loss are mitigated by the few turns of 0% income loss. so yes, it still hurts a bit, but it does offer some protection for your Hannyas and it frees up design points, so I'd say going with H1 instead of 0 is possible and not very wasteful.
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  #12  
Old August 21st, 2010, 08:17 PM

Rookierookie Rookierookie is offline
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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

Each point of Order gives 7% while each temperature scale gives -5%. Don't see why you shouldn't give some temperature scale up for order, especially since the income hit always fluctuates.
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  #13  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:05 AM

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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

You're definitely not going to get seasonal temperature shifts in all your provinces. Opening up some of my test games I'm only seeing a temperature shift from seasonal variation in something like 1/3 to 1/2 of provinces under dominion in early, mid, and late winter.

Assuming the ceiling eliminates 5% income penalty in 1/2 provinces 1/4 of the year. 5% / 8 = 0.625%
This means H3 or C3 is about 4.375% income hit over H2 or C2. So the ceiling helps but I don't think it helps as much as people think. However going H0 to H1 changes one of the seasonal shifts from a loss to a gain giving you an extra 2x0.625% or 1.25% from what it takes away so H0 to H1 is about a 3.75% income hit whereas H1 to H2 is just a straight up 5% hit. This means H3 is about a 13.125% income hit total. At least assuming I got that math right.

The main reasons you might want to take a temp scale closer to your ideal over order would be if you also had heavy luck scales and wanted more random events or wanted to avoid the encumbrance penalty from severe heat.

As for Yomi I would always take at least H1 if only to protect the Hannyas from the cold blooded penalty.

Last edited by Bonfire; August 22nd, 2010 at 02:33 AM..
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  #14  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

When going heat3/cold3 you also have to consider the extra +2 encumbrance: is it going to hurt you or your opponent more? Nations relying on thugs or a few elite units will probably be hindered more then nations relying on hordes of cheep units. As Yomi, heat3 might give you a defensive advantage against some nations since you should be mostly unaffected. I'm still not sure if it's worth the income drop though.
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  #15  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

Kadelake hit it. taking heat 3 should only be taken if you get fire resistant troop/mages. For ex: I think EA Ulm works well with cold 3 because they ignore the extra fatigue and probably their opponents dont.

An other point is the cold opponents of the early era. All nordic nations, plus caelum and ulm and probably the water nations. And their dominion is worse than winter. So if you build a fort in enemy dominion is worth making a temple and preach simply to be able to use battle magic.

But just to offset them is not worthwile to get some extra fatigue from extreme heat.

Still i now think heat 1 might be sufficient. im not sure.

EA Agartha feels the same and even more than yomi because you can use the Dai onis instead. But you can hardly replace your Agarthan oracles.

All in all the income hit is the least I think of in the heat-cold thing. If youre up to maximize gold then take 0. But im maximizing the pretenders research. And in my point of view and others is that its faster than taking a magic scale. tough more expensive in points. As you have to get negative scales and there is no way around it. Wich negative scales you choose is kind of a personal preference i think.

Last edited by Torin; August 22nd, 2010 at 01:20 PM..
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  #16  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

Dai Oni, Aka-Oni and Kuro-Oni (Hannya too) are all immune to the fatigue from heat 3, so it's not that bad a choice. As long as you don't mind the income hit, that is.
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  #17  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

They actually are yes. I think I will edit the first post to tune it up.
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  #18  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

And the Shura have encumbrance 0 so he doesn't care about heat either
Neither does archers.
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  #19  
Old August 30th, 2010, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

I've had great fun in SP(CBM)with the following build, probably wouldn't work in MP though.

Sleeping Master druid, dominion 3
Order 3, Sloth 3, Heat 3, Growth 1, Luck 0, Drain 2
F1 A1 W1 E9 S6 N6 D1 B1
This gives you a potent bless for the Dai Onis, which I probably over-kit. Construction 4 is a strong priority for Skull mentors, then buffing spells for Oni. Shrouds are enc 0 and a great way to avoid the unreliant self-bless. Both Bracers and Flame helmet are forgeble and gives cumulative bonuses to protection. Combine with brands and reinvig items for sturdy SCs. Buff with earth power, invulnerability, soul vortex and maybe fire shield and the dude kan take on entire armies.
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  #20  
Old August 30th, 2010, 05:40 AM
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Default Re: Pretender design for Yomi

Oh, and then i go for the "Strands of arcane power" with my Master druid, doable with a crystal coin from Con4. And you want the evos anyway.
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