Warning: Illegal string offset 'type' in [path]/includes/class_postbit.php(294) : eval()'d code on line 65
How is LA R'yleh overpowered? - .com.unity Forums
.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

BCT Commander- Save $6.00
World Supremacy- Save $8.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 3: The Awakening

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 11th, 2009, 02:07 PM

Aeshi Aeshi is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Aeshi is on a distinguished road
Default How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

I've never really bothered playing R'yleh until now.But now that I have I can't really see what makes them so feared since:

a)You can have trouble getting income due to domkill
b)Anything you CAN recruit will go insane in a few turns.

Your only hope seems to be going for low dominion and hoping you don't go against somebody with good priests.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old October 11th, 2009, 02:34 PM

Micah Micah is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,226
Thanks: 12
Thanked 86 Times in 48 Posts
Micah is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

They got nerfed a few patches back and the popkill was increased by a factor of 5 or 10, they're not really OP anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old October 11th, 2009, 03:14 PM

Omnirizon Omnirizon is offline
BANNED USER
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,133
Thanks: 25
Thanked 59 Times in 36 Posts
Omnirizon is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

I'm not for sure, but I think the rationale is something like this:

R'yleh is considered unbalancing because they destroy population. a player who ends up facing off against LA R'yleh in MP will have little to show for it afterwards, while still needing to spend the same amount of gold/gems to keep the war going to the end.

Suppose there are four nations, and one is R'yleh. One nation goes to war with R'yleh, while the other two go to war. Once the dust settles, even if the player facing R'yleh wins, simply because the lands they have gained from R'yleh are now absent large portions of their original population, they will be much worse off then whoever won amongst the other two nations.

For that reason R'yleh isn't really permitted into too many MP games, it would simply be an unfair misfortune to have to go to war with them. Same thing for LA Ermor.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old October 11th, 2009, 04:18 PM
Amhazair's Avatar

Amhazair Amhazair is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Posts: 1,333
Thanks: 39
Thanked 59 Times in 43 Posts
Amhazair is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnirizon View Post
I'm not for sure, but I think the rationale is something like this:

R'yleh is considered unbalancing because they destroy population. a player who ends up facing off against LA R'yleh in MP will have little to show for it afterwards, while still needing to spend the same amount of gold/gems to keep the war going to the end.
I wouldn't agree with this. Before that patch Micah spoke about - which is when they were considered overpowered, so that's where we have to look to answer the question - their pop-kill was really manageable. Taking growth 3 (entirely possible considering what R'lyeh needs to get from a pretender - which is not very much) essentially meant your population remained almost stable. It might be (have been) a big part of why Ermor was shunned but R'lyeh... Well they just were awesomely, freakishly strong.

Things they have going for them:

* Water start. The only LA nation with one at that. There are no early game threats to your safety.
* Largely amphibious. Only one recruitable (albeit a very nice one) and some freespawn can't move freely on land.
* Freespawn, very decent low-resource heavyish recruitable blockers (those are the aquatic ones though) and quite possibly a combat pretender make for lightning-fast expansion.
* Mind blasters can deal with severl things you'd otherwise have trouble with. (Knight provinces never were so munchy before.)

Now, all this might look quite tasty, but actually, it's just setting the scene. The tools that allow you to build up a strong early position from which you can deploy your real strength. Magic. Big, beefy, high-astral mages and cheapish communion slaves. There's just about nothing they can't accomplish if they put their mind to it. Buffing that mass of previously crappy freespawn with army of lead? Mind-hunting the lands? Massive penetration soul-slayage anywhere you need it? Killing enemy golem thugs with mind duel? (And yawning while thinking of all the gems your opponents put into this horrible mistake) Teleport dropping on moderate PD without equipment and just 2 or 3 water gems? Cast multiple master enslaves in the first round of battle? Check, check, and double check, they can do it all. Hell, they can cast wish with unempowered, recruit everywhere mages. (And I'm not talking 10% randoms here. Just your average 1/16 S5 mage with boosters they can natively forge)

Unfortunately for them those mages all cost some serious money. And while pre-nerf they had a slightly reduced income from pop-kill, this was amply compensated by the fact that after initial expansion you never had to buy a trooper ever again since you had those freespawn working for you.

Now though... Well, to be honest I haven't actually played a late age game since that patch but it wasn't hard to guess the effects of severly reduced money, and Micah's post above sure confirms it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old October 12th, 2009, 02:01 AM
Hoplosternum's Avatar

Hoplosternum Hoplosternum is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Romford, England
Posts: 445
Thanks: 95
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Hoplosternum is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

There was and is the problem that attackers will also have a lot of mages/Thugs/SCs go insane to various degrees while bringing them down. This is a powerful defence as insanity has no cure in Dom 3 and seriously erodes the leaders use later.

Apart from making R'lyeh unattractive as an opponent it also makes using communions and the like when attacking them tricky. A master or two that decides to do something else can seriously mess up a script and hence the whole battle plan

The only things immune to R'lyehs insanity are their own starspawn priests and mages. Although I think the void gate itself when entered can drive either insane(?)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old October 12th, 2009, 02:30 AM

Aeshi Aeshi is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Aeshi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

I've had my starspawn go insane without entering the void gate plenty of times.I'll admit that most of my experience of LA R'yleh is from older patches though
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old October 12th, 2009, 02:35 AM
Fantomen's Avatar

Fantomen Fantomen is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Me a viking
Posts: 1,012
Thanks: 78
Thanked 122 Times in 73 Posts
Fantomen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

LA atlantis unsleeping underwater units are also immune iirc.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old October 12th, 2009, 03:18 AM

Kuritza Kuritza is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 651
Thanks: 4
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Kuritza is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

1) The only LA nation with an unerwater start. Some LA nations can get underwater, but hardly compete with LA RLyeh there.
2) Tons of free spawn, some of which isnt 'chaff'.
3) Mind blasters, even in PD.
4) Highest astral of all nations. Up to 5, actually.
5) Dreams of Rlyeh, one of the best assassination spells around.
6) Insanity domain. Hard to fight Rlyeh when half your commanders occasionally decide to dance around some tree chanting Rlyeh Fhtagn!
7) Mass prophets.

Rlyeh has domkill now, but all of the above is still true. Maybe not 'ridiculously OP' now, but still pretty much OP in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old October 12th, 2009, 04:52 AM
Squirrelloid Squirrelloid is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,157
Thanks: 69
Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
Squirrelloid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

Not at all overpowered. Making gains worth less is merely a national advantage, much like Abysia's ability to ignore growth scales (iirc), or Ulm's production bonus. At the same time, unlike these other nations they *pay* for that national advantage directly - it costs them gold every turn. Rlyeh has to expand or die - to defeat Rlyeh all you have to do is stop them from expanding - their dominion will do the rest.

Keep in mind that in addition to losing money because of decreasing population, they also pay upkeep on all those freespawn, about half of which are aquatic only, and the vast majority of which are chaff.

Also, no one ever won a game by controlling all the oceans. Sure, they might be hard to invade. So what?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old October 12th, 2009, 05:52 AM

Zeldor Zeldor is offline
General
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,414
Thanks: 26
Thanked 73 Times in 49 Posts
Zeldor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How is LA R'yleh overpowered?

1. R'lyeh mages are very expensive and not really immune to insanity.
2. Chaff eats gold, lots of chaff eats lots of gold.
3. You really notice the domkill.
4. Without research you can do nothing on land.
5. Even with research you need lots of mages.
6. No feet slots, no easy E boost.
7. You can have huge problems if both Mictlan and Atlantis try to rush you.
__________________
谋事在人,成事在天。

LA Agartha guide
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2020, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.