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Old August 1st, 2008, 08:39 PM

Malarkey Malarkey is offline
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Default The Bogarus Problem

Recently, I've been trying out the cool, cool nation of Bogarus. Thematically, they are great, but choosing the right Pretender design is pretty tricky. Initially, I went with a Rainbow build in order to take cover all of Bog's summons. I ended up trying out all of those national summons and I'm not that impressed with any of the ones that I have to go out of my way to cast. None of the National Water summons are that good and the Leshy is a pretty good thug only in a forest.

Bogarus' military is generally horrible, so another inclination of mine was to go Sloth 3, but I actually think their heavy cavalry is pretty good and if I did that, I'd have no military whatsoever.

I'd definitely go Cold 3 and Growth 3.

Much of my newest round of strategy involves finding all of my high income provinces, setting them to 200% tax, then patrolling in them with the Simargl, which are pretty good patrollers. Also finding all of my higher pop provinces and blood hunting in them while patrolling them as well. I guess I'll god Blood on my Pretender because of this.

What are everyone's thoughts on Chassis/Magicks? I might still go for Nature 4 or 5 for the Leshy. Probably go Blood a little bit. Any suggestions?

Edit: Oh and I'd been going Dormant or Imprisoned, but I've heard most Bogs dont do that for lack of a strong army. Thoughts?
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Old August 1st, 2008, 08:51 PM

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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

Bogarus is the greatest magic nation in the game. In terms of pure research, they can bust out research faster than anyone. Ever.

That being said, the cav is indeed their only good unit. I found that my initial "province taker" armies actually consisted of two smiters and some Cav.

In general, I'd go Forge Lord with W4/F4 so he can make super cheap Elemental staves and fire items, good scales, and then focus on powerful magery (imprisoned, dom8,Ord3,Prod3,Cold3,Gr3,Mis2,Mag1).
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

Malarkay,

Many people are of the opinion that Bogarus need an awake god to help early expansion. PoD is not a bad choice.

Add A1 for air shield since high damage missiles are common in LA.

Bogarus has excellent site searchers and so should have high gem income but only E1 available in its recruitable mages. So E2 for your pretender is worthy of consideration to get dwarven hammer through earth boots. This should leave enough design points for a high dominion and good scales.

Don't rely too much on Bogarus' national troops as they are generally inferior to those of other nations. Use your awake pretender to hold off any early invasion and research battle magic quickly.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 02:44 AM

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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

Not only do you need an awake pretender for expansion, but Bogarus is also on the shortlist of Nations To Rush. I just took them out pretty quickly; would have had their capital at turn 7 if I didn't make a mistake, but had it at turn 9 anyway.

An awake pretender is necessary for Bogarus's survival in the early game so that you actually have a chance to use their awesome magic powers later. Otherwise, they simply have nothing - NOTHING that can stop an early rush by any dunce with a dual bless.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 04:10 PM

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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

Quote:
Renojustin said:
Not only do you need an awake pretender for expansion, but Bogarus is also on the shortlist of Nations To Rush. I just took them out pretty quickly; would have had their capital at turn 7 if I didn't make a mistake, but had it at turn 9 anyway.

An awake pretender is necessary for Bogarus's survival in the early game so that you actually have a chance to use their awesome magic powers later. Otherwise, they simply have nothing - NOTHING that can stop an early rush by any dunce with a dual bless.
There aren't many nations that can survive a turn 6 Dual Bless rush even with an awake god. I wouldn't be married to that strategy.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

One might almost say "there aren't many awake gods that can survive a turn 6 dual-bless rush".

I don't think really the point is to insure you can always "handily defeat" your most likely rushers. But rather, to have a strategy and setup that will hopefully hurt them and slow them down enough, to deter them from screwing their entire game by hitting the speed-bump of your nation.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 04:48 PM

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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

Yeah man, at least give yourself a chance. You KNOW that someone is going to come after you... imo you're really going to have to prepare for that somehow and an awake pretender is the only way.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 05:27 PM

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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

Basically, a Turn 6 god is not even a speedbump since he doesn't have any good equipment yet.


But, considering that in the LA the only real bless nation is Mictlan, I think you can rest easy.

That being said, Bogarus province defense is very good. I just ran a test with twenty dual-blessed jaguar warriors + initial army vs. PD 35, your crap initial archers, and two Smiters and had no problems handily cleaning up Mictlan's troops.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 05:44 PM

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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

There are lots of "turn 6 gods" that are fantastic fighters. So many that it wouldn't even be very productive to start listing them. But I'd invite others to.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

Mictlan is definitely the *best* of the LA bless rushers, but Midgard, Gath, Patala and T'ien Ch'i all have sacreds good enough to sustain a double-bless rush that will eat Bogarus alive, and they'd be fools not to use it if they're your neighbor. You might also espect a rush out of Ermor, Man or Utgard, since you-have-to-die.

Bogarus can have the Wyrm, Cyclops, Manticore, or any flavor of Dragon. An awake pretender from this list is fearsome in early expansion even without equipment - and, even without equipment, might tip the balance against Man, Utgard, Midgard or Patala. But against Mictlan, T'ien Ch'i, Ermor or Gath, barely a speed bump.

An *equipped* Cyclops is a horse of an entirely different color, also with spikes and machine guns, but that's not possible by turn 6.
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