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  #21  
Old September 29th, 2013, 08:15 PM
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Fallout Re: IDF OOB project.

I just have a quick thought here. I tried to get the 60mm Mortars in while researchimg the Turkish M60T which led me back to the MERKAVA. Do we delete tank rounds for what we know is a real life issue (To make room for the 60mm ammo.) when we are game limited to the weapons slots we have availble? I seem to remember when this was brought up I was asked whether we should give up a MG for the 60mm mortar. My answer then was basically keep the MG as it was a better direct support weapon against infantry (I do remember being "coached" to think about it, must have been that Submariner thing? ). We might need a game comprimise here as the 60mm mortar cuts across the whole MERKAVA spectrum pretty much.
Ammo loads have always been an issue to some degree depending on sources and have been known to cross the "PITA Line" here at times.

Great Work!

Regards,
Pat
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  #22  
Old September 29th, 2013, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Pat,

I really think the 60mm is best left alone. I have said before, there is no way to model the Merks weapons fully in game. you would need 7 weapon slots:
1)main gun
2)7.62 coax
3)12.7 upper coax
4)TC 7.62mg
5)Loader 7.62 mg(aside from mk4)
6)60mm mortar
7)WP smoke dischargers used as a weapon(major thing against close range inf)

It just cant be done. Worse still, the 60mm is not just on merks! Some magachs and some Tirans(!) had them as well, mounted externally.

The truth is the 60mm is not meant to be used as a direct fire LOS weapon. it is meant exactly for when you don't want to be in LOS. It cant be done well in game.

As far as ammo loads, there is no issue, the ammo loads i specified are accurate to tanks carrying the 60mm and its ammo.


Honestly I think the solution for the merkava series should be:
Slot 1: Main gun
Slot 2: 7.62mm CMG
Slot 3: 12.7mm CMG
Slot 4: 2X7.62 AAMG/7.62mm AAMG

And what do you know, thats the way it is with most of them...If anything I might have an issue with older tanks having 12.7mm AAMGs on them, as the IDF usually(read always) preferred the 0.3 for both commander and loader.

Amit.
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  #23  
Old September 29th, 2013, 10:08 PM
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Fallout Re: IDF OOB project.

Amit,
Trust me I fully agree. Just pointing out the fact you recommended a main gun ammo reduction for one of the Merk 1 inputs provided because of the storage requirments to store 60mm mortar rounds unless, I misread the item (I believe it was the 2nd MERK 1 item down.) it just puts a ? on the issue of anyones (That means me as well.) ammo sources that does not specifically break them down by type and weapon for any OOB such issue.

So again should we reduce main gun ammo (5 or 6 rounds) for a weapon we can't even "enter" (Slot limitations.) or use? All I'm saying is in our AOR we didn't get the tanks with the mortars and need our AT/HE main gun rounds to meet our tactical needs. Sorry that was the best analogy I could come up with at the moment.

Regards,
Pat

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; September 29th, 2013 at 10:14 PM.. Reason: Corrected Merk type para 1.
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  #24  
Old September 30th, 2013, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

no no, you did not misread.

I think that we should use what we think the ammo load is IRL. On the tanks that carry mortar. Just to be as close to RL as possible. Honestly Merks are such powerful units I doubt 4-6 rounds less will unbalance anything.

Amit.
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  #25  
Old September 30th, 2013, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Units 100 and 101 Chaparral
*Name should possibly be changed to "Drakon", the IDF name for the SP-Chaparral
*Dates should definitely be shortened.The only source I have for this is hebrew wiki(I know, I know), which states:

"In April 2003 the 3 Drakon batteries of the 946th Battalion were shut down."

A quick Hebrew search found some backup for this, a few forum posts and CVs from people saying they served in that battalion until it was shut down and the vehicles sold to a south american client.

I suggest new end date 2003.

Units 105 Hovet and 106 Machbet In 2006 the final Vulcan units were shut down, I remember this from my time in service. This is also mentioned in the Hebrew wikipedia and reliable Israeli military forums.
I realize this will make a hole in the Israeli OOB, but I am just giving you the info


Unit 116 Sherman Dozer If we are not going to do a M51 Dozer I think this should at least be extended to match the life span of the M51.

Unit 117 Shot Dozer Again, assuming we are not going to do a version for the newer shots, should have end date 2002.

Unit 118 Tiran Dozer should match life span of Tiran 5.

Unit 119 M728i CEVI dont think this was ever in Israeli service, is there a source that says it was?
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  #26  
Old September 30th, 2013, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Do all the Mekavas use the Nochri Dalet Mine type Roller System ? If yes I'll fix those Icons that show the plow attached

Last edited by DRG; September 30th, 2013 at 02:21 PM..
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  #27  
Old September 30th, 2013, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingertanker View Post
Unit 119 M728i CEVI dont think this was ever in Israeli service, is there a source that says it was?

It's been in the files for at least 10 years and it has it's own unique Icon so all I can tell you is someone thought it was but IDK who

Don
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  #28  
Old September 30th, 2013, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

I found one reference that says....

Quote:

.....one book that lists the m728 as having been used . The book is Chariots of The Desert by David Eshel.On page 196 He lists it as M728 combat engineer vehicle with dozer blade.Wether they were used is anyones guess. I would however venture that during the Yom Kippur when they received replacement m60's they might have been included
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  #29  
Old September 30th, 2013, 03:39 PM

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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

I have this book:
http://www.mheaust.com.au/MHE/Books/IDF1.htm
No mention of M728 there...
Probably added by the same person who came up with the Israeli M1A1 Abrams...
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  #30  
Old September 30th, 2013, 03:43 PM

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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingertanker View Post

Unit 116 Sherman Dozer If we are not going to do a M51 Dozer I think this should at least be extended to match the life span of the M51.
But was there ever one???
No argument here just asking out of curiosity, because I've only seen dozers mounted on 105 mm Shermans.
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