.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Scallywag- Save $10.00
The Star & the Crescent- Save $7.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Shrapnel Community > Space Empires: IV & V

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1551  
Old March 1st, 2010, 06:14 PM
Captain Kwok's Avatar

Captain Kwok Captain Kwok is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,623
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Captain Kwok is on a distinguished road
Smile Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

Version 1.07 of Small Systems has been uploaded:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod-extras.php

It now includes data file changes made in Balance Mod v1.19g. The correct order of installation is to install Balance Mod v1.19g first then extract the contents of the Small Systems .zip file to your Balance Mod folder.

I also correct an error in the movement values for Small Ion and Contra-Terrene Engines, which made fighters move slower than ships in combat.
__________________
Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Captain Kwok For This Useful Post:
  #1552  
Old March 4th, 2010, 12:19 AM
Kamog's Avatar

Kamog Kamog is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,903
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Kamog is on a distinguished road
Arrow Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

Thank you very much, Captain Kwok.
Reply With Quote
  #1553  
Old March 8th, 2010, 05:33 AM
Arralen's Avatar

Arralen Arralen is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 500km from Ulm
Posts: 2,279
Thanks: 9
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Arralen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

Some more troubles - this time with the sat layer minister:

Running fresh 1.19g with SmSys 1.07.

Found my 2 FF SatLayers sitting over the last worlds where they picked up sats (small amount of cargo space still empty, but another sat won't fit), with orders to move to exactly that planet - forever. If I delete that order, it comes back on the next turn.

As those designs where copied and modified from -IIRC- explorers, I thought the "wrong internal type"-issue struck again.

So I constructed and build a FF satlayer from scratch, and it started out picking up sats just fine, moved into the next system to pick up more - and suddenly decided to head back for the Yard/Depot where it started out (similar like the others did), presumably to stay there forever (though cargo space is 33% empty, and there where some more sats on a nearby planet to pick up, and supplies are at max.)

Only ministers active are sat layer and renaming.
Sat Layers seem to work fine for the AI, though?!

Any idea?
Reply With Quote
  #1554  
Old March 11th, 2010, 10:14 PM
Captain Kwok's Avatar

Captain Kwok Captain Kwok is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,623
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Captain Kwok is on a distinguished road
Question Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

Does the current cargo on the ship take up more than 50% of the cargo space?
__________________
Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod
Reply With Quote
  #1555  
Old March 12th, 2010, 03:51 AM
Arralen's Avatar

Arralen Arralen is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 500km from Ulm
Posts: 2,279
Thanks: 9
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Arralen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

Yes!
Both the edited and the from-scratch design have 5 cargo bays, 1 satellite bay. Both fill up to 560 of 720 kt cargo (7 sats), then the vessels run away to sit right on top of the spaceyard/resupply depot planet, with 0% damage and 3375/3375 supplies - and no local sats to pic up. What they wouldn't try anyway, according to their orders.
Reply With Quote
  #1556  
Old March 17th, 2010, 06:41 AM
Arralen's Avatar

Arralen Arralen is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 500km from Ulm
Posts: 2,279
Thanks: 9
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Arralen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

Update - played to turn 134, and I had a peek into some AI turns to look for troubles with ship designs, diplo etc. :


Minelayer didn't work correctly, either, yet gave a hint at what might be wrong!
- minelayer FF gathered mines up to ~67%
- switched to "move to *yard planet*", and sat there
- I deleted that order, gave it remote load order for more mines
- issued a remote minelaying order
Ship did that, and tried to return to the yard, again, as the minister was still enabled, but then I got an declaration of war
- and suddenly the minelayer set out to mine some border warp point, all on his own !
=> might be that getting a "target hex" for satellite/mine-layers does not work for the player at least in peacetime!

Carrier on ministers worked -almost- as expected, switching to "Join Fleet" at 644/750kt cargo. Could have loaded some more fighters, even on the way to the fleet, but at least that one was chosen sensibly: nearest/biggest fleet without carrier


Plagues seem to kill "mechanoid" pop on the very first turn, when they appear. There's a plague message, but no "colonists died" message (if there's ever one?). Mood dropped from "jubilant" to "indifferent", though. And I'm pretty sure I had more than 98k pop on that planet, as the neighbouring colonies are of the same age and ~750k pop.
No visible effects in the next turns, though the planet condition still reads "Plague Level 3".


AI diplomacy is completely borked:
First offer is "Give us 5% tariff, and we both agree we won't shoot". Second, within 10 turns or so, is "Intersettle with us, .. (plus some goodies, or badies). Third is "intersettle, and exchange tech", or "Be brothers with us" straight away.
Sometimes in between, there seem to be random declarations of war, albeit very seldomly - with relations "amiable", both for player vs AI, and AI vs AI.
In general, relations ramp up to the best possible within short time, in 13 of 14 cases - only 1 AI somehow insisted on being pissed off, but it was never the one that declared war?!
Worst thing is, the AI players seem to agree to those treaty suggestion more often than not, resulting in redicolous research for the AI, and colonies scattered all over the map, which couldn't be defended if there was any war between the AI, what most times isn't the case.

Sorry to have so much to bicker about, but .. hey .. things can always get better
__________________
As for AI the most effective work around to this problem so far is to simply use an American instead, they tend to put up a bit more of a fight than your average Artificial Idiot.
... James McGuigan on rec.games.computer.stars somewhen back in 1998 ...
Reply With Quote
  #1557  
Old March 17th, 2010, 04:50 PM
Captain Kwok's Avatar

Captain Kwok Captain Kwok is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,623
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Captain Kwok is on a distinguished road
Post Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

I thought I had made this post a few days ago, but apparently not.

Copy this info into your DebugSettings.txt file in the stock data folder. It will generate condensed debug logs for each player's AI script per turn. This includes things like minister orders or AI anger levels etc.

Code:
=======================================================================================
*BEGIN*
=======================================================================================

Generate Game Debug Log                                 := TRUE
Generate Engine Debug Log                               := FALSE
Use Fast Debug Log                                      := FALSE
Debug Section Engine Startup                            := FALSE
Debug Section Creation                                  := FALSE
Debug Section Sound Base                                := FALSE
Debug Section Display Class                             := FALSE
Debug Section Sobj Ship                                 := FALSE
Debug Section Display Object                            := FALSE
Debug Section Formula Evaluation                        := FALSE
Debug Section Script Evaluation Detailed                := FALSE
Debug Section Script Evaluation Simple                  := FALSE
Debug Section Script Evaluation Debug Print Only        := TRUE
Debug Print Sections                                    := Colonies, Construction, Design, Enemy Analysis, Events, Intel, Lists, Planets, Politics, Research, Resources, Setup, Ships, State, System
Debug Section Compute Highest Tech Level                := FALSE
Debug Section Master State Machine                      := FALSE
Debug Section Order Execution                           := FALSE
Debug Section Combat                                    := FALSE
Debug Section Combat Speed                              := FALSE
Debug Section Main Drawing Loop                         := FALSE
Debug Section TCPIP                                     := FALSE
Debug Section End All Players Turn                      := FALSE
Debug Section Host Processing                           := FALSE
Debug Section Phased Movement                           := FALSE

=======================================================================================
*END*
=======================================================================================
I had commented in that post as well that I thought your layers weren't working because they didn't have any valid locations to drop at. This are usually marked as border systems or defense locations. If you don't have any enemies (or non-treaties) then typically you won't have these locations which is why the layers defaulted to their backup behaviour of going to the nearest SY.

Regarding the AI politics, I'll have to keep an eye on that. It looks like your games start overly friendly which increases the overall likability for everyone by giving anger reductions for having the same friends or signing new treaties etc. If there's no wars in the galaxy though, there is a modifier to cause distrust between unlike AIs.

I don't generally see the overly friendly galaxy though in my AI test games, so I'm interested in what kind of empires you're typically seeing in your games...
__________________
Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod
Reply With Quote
  #1558  
Old March 20th, 2010, 05:18 AM
Arralen's Avatar

Arralen Arralen is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 500km from Ulm
Posts: 2,279
Thanks: 9
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Arralen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Kwok View Post
Copy this info into your DebugSettings.txt file in the stock data folder.
Done.
Had to start a new game, because turn generation times became unbearable Might be better anyway, as you'll get logs from turn 1 then ...
Btw., where am I supposed to send them ?

Quote:
I had commented in that post as well that I thought your layers weren't working because they didn't have any valid locations to drop at. This are usually marked as border systems or defense locations. If you don't have any enemies (or non-treaties) then typically you won't have these locations which is why the layers defaulted to their backup behaviour of going to the nearest SY.
I don't think this is desirable behaviour, as it
A) takes time (= several trips) to pile up those stacks of units which make a difference and
B) this puts the layers into jeopardy, as they tend to stop for one turn at the WH after dropping off their load - and there's a good chance that the enemy gets them there then.
I'd rather see the layers pile up those stacks over time at all border systems, and maybe even some around the home or other key systems (if there's a definition for that somewhere) .. pretty much like the stock ministers do.
Otherwise, I would have to handle all that by hand during peacetime (or war preparation), which mostly defeats the idea of having ministers ...

Quote:
Regarding the AI politics, I'll have to keep an eye on that. It looks like your games start overly friendly which increases the overall likability for everyone by giving anger reductions for having the same friends or signing new treaties etc. If there's no wars in the galaxy though, there is a modifier to cause distrust between unlike AIs.
I don't generally see the overly friendly galaxy though in my AI test games, so I'm interested in what kind of empires you're typically seeing in your games...
All 14 in 160 paradise systems, plus my own race.
I've played 57 turns into my new game, and the Sithrak are doing it again: I met them around turn 25, they signed my suggested non-aggression (in non-colony systems) treaty at "indifferent", and now they're at "amiable" (IIRC) and offer intersettling. Their attitude started to skyrocket as soon as the non-aggression was signed, despite the fact that I shot down one of their colonizers next to my colonies on the next turn. 2 other AI which I didn't have treaties with up to now stayed at "indifferent" over 10 turns or more. Now - "non-aggression in non-colony systems" shouldn't be anything to be that excited about, especially if you're the Sithrak, right?!
Reply With Quote
  #1559  
Old March 20th, 2010, 07:57 AM
Captain Kwok's Avatar

Captain Kwok Captain Kwok is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,623
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Captain Kwok is on a distinguished road
Post Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

The debug logs are dumped in SE5's backup folder as text files. You can view them as you like. If anything weird happens, feel free to send them to the savegame e-mail.

I'll have to double-check the border identification scheme. I don't recall setting it up to be dependent on having known empires nearby. Maybe I've left a loophole or something.
__________________
Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod
Reply With Quote
  #1560  
Old March 20th, 2010, 11:39 AM
Arralen's Avatar

Arralen Arralen is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 500km from Ulm
Posts: 2,279
Thanks: 9
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Arralen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V

Emailed log files from a new game ...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2018, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.